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Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner
Off-TopicEDIT: 21 Feb 2003: Read All Comments Nested from participants such as PHP-Nuke Developer Francisco Burzi and PostNuke Developers KingRichard and Harry. Also learn about other derivatives like Xaraya and LostNuke. And find out how Thatware started it all.

Quoting Lawrence Krubner from an archived post found at wrox.com below. I have to disagree. Look at the remarkable advancements in PHP-Nuke today. phpBB2 forums are integrated, extra security is being taken and many bug fixes have been implemented. But I do concur on the Post-Nuke sentiments. I couldn't even get .703 to run and found no support. PHP-Nuke fans have support everywhere. Viva PHPNuke.


> I have run into conversation about a PHP program called PostNuke. Can
> anyone explain to me just what this is?

A content management system, a rather easy way to set up a site that allows for community posting.

The background history: Originally Francisco Burzi sat down and created PHPNuke. His program became popular and soon scaled to a level that was beyond Burzi's ability to manage. He accepted help from outside programmers but he treated them badly. He often did not credit them for work they did, and also he failed to fix bugs they repeatedly pointed out to him, even when they submitted bug fixes. A number of these programmers became angry, and decided to fork PHPNuke, and come up with their own version, which is PostNuke.

On the bright side: PostNuke aims for a higher level of code quality than what you'll find in PHPNuke. Therefore it should be more stable. The developer team is more democratic. There is more emphasis on fixing bugs. The design is more modular, therefore, in theory, it should be easier to customize.

However, I have tried to use PostNuke and it was an inhuman pain. It is undergoing very rapid development so a new version is out every 4 months and these versions are very different from one another. The core developer team is still making some fairly fundamental changes to the underlying architecture, rejecting decisions that Burzi made in terms of design. The changes are so fundamental that someone with experience with version .63 couldn't help me out because I was working with version .703. And I started using version .703 right before version .71 came out, which had a totally different architecture for buffering output and then printing it to the screen. This was a big deal since I was trying to customize the output to the screen, and no one wanted to help with my problems since my problems were with an "out of date" version.


I spent a month trying to customize PostNuke for a client, and then I gave up. It was too hard and the support was non-existent. Although you'll find many people in the community who want to help you, you'll find no one who has experience with the particular version you've got. And, worst, the developer team puts all of its energy into writing code and none of it into answering people's questions. This, to my mind, compares badly with Phorum, another open source PHP project, where Brian Moon and the other core developers spend significant amounts of time in the support forums answering people's questions.

If you were me, you would avoid PostNuke like it was small pox.

A bunch of us PHP coders here in Charlottesville, Virginia have recently had bad experiences with both PHPNuke and PostNuke. Therefore we've decided to write our own community CMS from scratch. I know its been done a hundred times before, but every group needs something different, and I suppose sometimes it is easier to write something from scratch than to customize existing software.

If I knew Java then I would use ArsDigita. Or if I had my own server and felt like learning Tcl and AOL_Server. Phillip Greenspun thought about these issues a long time before the rest of us did and he came up with what is probably the best software for the job. Originally it only worked with Oracle as the database, but now it can also work with PostgreSQL. But it is resource hungry.

I'm working on two projects right now, a weblog and a CMS. We hope the CMS will be fairly light and simple. Of course, they all start that way. Then they go downhill.

take care,

Lawrence Krubner
Posted on Sunday, February 16 @ 12:31:07 CET by Zhen-Xjell
 
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, February 16 @ 23:50:48 CET
Pure shit...
PostNuke... more stable???? this guy is crazy? is him sick?
PHP-Nuke, at this time, is the most secure and stable CMS/Portal system out there.

AND... it's easy to add stuff, its clean design is far superior than any other... yes, no comments in the code, but who need them with that clean code? Clean == Human Readable



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by spapoops on Monday, February 17 @ 13:17:16 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.spapoops.com
I had no "history"or preconceptions about CMS before I begin looking for "something better" than the custom ASP application that I had been using.

I looked at all the CMS's and installed every one out there that would run (and would actually install:) on my IIS hosting services.

There is no other CMS than PHP-Nuke - Open Source or commercial.

One of the best applications of any kind anywhere and a community that is also one the best anywhere.

I've had it in production since 6.5 beta 1.

Bugs, yep.

Fixes?

I've had to actually wait an entire hour for a fix:)

Bryan



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 18 @ 09:42:31 CET
Heeemm this is a really bull shit article. I'm sorry to stumble on this one. But I gotta say one think. Please thinks before you make a comment. PostNuke or PHPNuke have different features.

PHP Nuke OK, not a bad CMS. Its easy to read by KiddyScripters. There are too many bugs and no Documentation. Plus you have to pay to participate on BETA. Furthermore no installation procedure and no user Tiers. No ability to run Multisites and much much more. Since its running by FB alone then no help can be found or you will be in the dark until he release the new version. Plus every version doesnt have back compatibility. Plus no installer for upgrade.

PostNuke in other hand have been mutated into a giant CMS system. Its easy to used, 100% secure, Documented, Multi tier user, Installer, and GPL. It even allow to run Multisites easily. Very modular and back compatibility with all its old mods (lacking for PHP Nuke) Since its modular you dont have to worried modifing the CORE. Plus its come with HOOKS system. Yes I understand for a newbies Object Oriented programming can be difficult. But who need programming if you are a webmaster. User Friendly is the most important. No support? you must be kidding me? The forum is always there, The WIKI document is there, The IRC channel is alway on, and much much more. One other strong point for PostNuke is that it can handle large traffics sites (one site appearing in OPRAH show without problem) There are so much thing that I can say here.. But.... you should find out your self.

regards,



Couldn't be more wrong (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 18 @ 14:10:07 CET
First of all why would you post a link to an article that is so old?

Second of all if you can get PHP-Nuke to run PostNuke is even easier to install.

IMO PostNuke surpasses PHP-Nuke in every way, stability, security, features, modules.

One of the complaints is the version changes and certain things not working with newer versions.

.703 modules can run on newer versions with PastNuke (not sure why you would want to do that though, i can't think of a module that hasn't been ported)

.723 for the most part is fully comptible with just about everything from the .71x series, and in the future compatibility will be maintained.

Look at PHP-Nuke they change forum software more then I change close, yeah integrated solution. While it's a solution it's not a very good one. PostNuke has multiple forum software that can be used.

PHP-Nuke has more modules but would you rather have quaility or quantity? I for one love the stability and well written useful PostNuke modules.

Support is top notch, I know becuase I help support users.

Open Development - PostNuke has an open development, unlike Burzi the sole programmer who only lets people contribute when he is stumped or needs help with something.

Time will tell my friends, PostNuke as it stands right now is a better CMS plain and simple and will only continue to blow PHP-Nuke out of the water unless Burzi decides to do something innovative instead of tossing a bunch of peoples modules in a package and releasing it as 6.5 ,7.0 etc.

bharvey42 -- Somebody who actually uses and knows how to install all flavors of Nuke.




Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 2, Interesting)
by chatserv on Tuesday, February 18 @ 14:58:52 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://nukeresources.com
Usually users of one or the other CMS get heated up when comparisons are made between the two, i for one will not trash PostNuke as i don't use and thus can't give a educated opinion about it, but i can on the other hand give out my opinions on PHP-Nuke, when mentioning lack of support make sure you check your sources as they don't seem to be very up-to-date, just to point out but a mere handful:

http://www.nukeforums.com [www.nukeforums.com]
http://www.nukecops.com [www.nukecops.com]
http://www.computercops.biz [www.computercops.biz]
http://www.nukeresources.com [www.nukeresources.com]
http://www.nukesupport.com [www.nukesupport.com]
http://www.nuke4newbie.org [www.nuke4newbie.org]
http://www.nuketutorials.com [www.nuketutorials.com]
http://www.warrenonline.ca/tutorials.php [www.warrenonline.ca]
http://www.phpnuke.org [www.phpnuke.org]
http://www.karakas-online.de/EN-Book [www.karakas-online.de]

Now about installers, PHP-Nuke comes with upgrade scripts, they may not be automated but they exist and that's what should really matter, and the Nuke community produces support files for new users (e.g. Analyzer.php & NukeSQL.php), so i'd say support and resources are a big part of PHP-Nuke's community.

No CMS is 100% secure, all have had security advisories relating to them at one point or the other, PostNuke is easier to install? Bravo, but i will mention that its coding is no walk to the park when it comes to modifying it from what I've heard from expert coders, if this has changed recently then again, bravo, a user should be able to pick whatever CMS he/she feels will get the job done for them, i would under no circumstances bash anyone for deciding to use PostNuke, phpWebSite, Xoops, MyPHP-Nuke or any other CMS out there, variety brings the spice to our otherwise dull lives, if we the members of the PHP-Nuke community have chosen to remain faithful to PHP-Nuke then no one should have a problem with that. Peace.



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by phpnut on Tuesday, February 18 @ 19:31:59 CET
(User Info | Send a Message)
As a user of both PhpNuke and PostNuke I can comment on this article.

For a portal that you wish to make information publicly accessible PhpNuke is a good solution. In comparison to PostNuke, PhpNuke does have many modules available to it and many seem geared toward the average end user. I do not see many PHPNuke modules that could be used in a business or corporate environment.

PostNuke has a very detailed strict user permissions system allowing you to limit access to every module and area of your site to a general group or a specific user. The permissions system allows you to create groups and users with special permissions. You can add a user to one or many of these groups to give a variety of complex permissions easily. This is handy if you need moderators, sub admins, and other people helping manage a commercial site and wish to limit admin access.

I think both PostNuke and PhpNuke are excellent CMS's for different audiences. PhpNuke is a better choice if you are a hobbyist and non-commercial end user. If you are a business or organization that needs good management tools then PostNuke is going to suite your needs better in my professional opinion.

Here are some PostNuke modules that are very popular among business end users.

Xanthia Theme Engine [pnapi.com]: http://pnapi.com
ContentExpess Content management [pn.arising.net]: http://pn.arising.net/ce/
Static Content Management [postnuke.wunderlin.net]: http://postnuke.wunderlin.net
PostCalendar [postcalendar.tv]: http://postcalendar.tv/
FormExpress Forms Generator [www.stutchbury.net]: http://www.stutchbury.net
pnAddressBook (Palm Style): http://smiatek.com
LDAP [www.olos.nl]: http://www.olos.nl
NukeOWL [www.sitescandinavia.net]: http://www.sitescandinavia.net
PNphpBB2 [www.itsallbutstraw.com]: http://www.itsallbutstraw.com

PostNuke Web Site [www.postnuke.com] http://www.postnuke.com
PhpNuke Web Site [www.phpnuke.org] http://www.phpnuke.org

PhpNut
www.phpnut.com



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 18 @ 21:26:59 CET
PostNuke is in fact very easy! I setup website in just a few minutes. I have no idea what this paper was talking about.



PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1, Informative)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 18 @ 23:39:31 CET
How does PHPNuke stack up to Xaraya? Xaraya is a fork of PostNuke... makes you wonder what PostXaraya will be like ;)

Xaraya now has LDAP integrated which makes it a strong candidate for corporate users. Flexible secure document management is the only component lacking from Xaraya. With NukeOwl integrated it will be without comparison. The combination of the two makes for a system that offers more features and stability (plus open source code) than the big commercial platforms (M$ sharepoint, iplanet, websphere etc).

Some interesting Xaraya links:
http://www.xaraya.com [www.xaraya.com]
http://www.xaraya.com/newsgroups/ [www.xaraya.com]
http://xaraya.com/downloads/ [xaraya.com]
http://www.xaraya.com/about/worldmap.php [www.xaraya.com]



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 2, Informative)
by KingRichard on Wednesday, February 19 @ 06:31:33 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com
Since my name is being mention on this thread. Then I have to say a words.

First of all whoever wrote this article dont know what he or she talking about. Furthermore it sound that PHP Nuke is actually better then PostNuke.

Well, I can only say one thing "Try both and then compare" Being one of the most active developer in earlier stage of PHP Nuke development have giving me an opportunities to understand PHP Nuke more than other may know. At the time I would kill anyone who said bad thing about PHP Nuke. Myself and hotFix are the first person who port PHPBB and have it work for PHP Nuke. I even the person who convince FB to used SF as PHP Nuke early development. But time evolve, PHP Nuke no longer interest me due to FB close development method. Here is why?


Story of behind KR leave PHP Nuke
PHP Nuke is based on ThatWare (please do check it out) this is a facts. Its started after PHPSlash and ThatWare fail to fullfill our need. FB with his quick action create a small communities which soon become very popular especially after being supported by MandrakeSoft. However due to FB close development several good developer leave the dev. Mainly because its too difficult to enlighten close development. Furthermore non-modular concept will always bring developer to change the core. This way backward compatibily can't be accomplish. But there are one time that I actually believe that FB open up and move its development into SF. But that doesnt last for long. :(

With that event occurs, I left PHP Nuke development and join the PostNuke team. And from that point on, I can feel the power of a truly Open Source community. PN team have teach me many wonderfull thing that I will never learn with a close development. Further more it teach me how to work as a TEAM. Since PostNuke force us to used CVS, I will get a daily snapshot from CORE TEAM. So I can keep developing and release my mods at the same time PostNuke CORE come out. Now since PostNuke are so modular I dont even have to worried about modules backward compatibility. As long as I follow the Post Nuke Guide.

PostNuke evolve so fast that even on its .x stage, it keep amaze me. Now running .723 PostNuke is a totally rebuild and one can say when PN version 1.0 complete it can compete with the rest of the commercial apps. Just some idea why I can make this judgement is because I'm an IT Director and also an Ex IT Consultant (Arthur Andersen), so yes, I have seen BroadVision, iPlanet (SUN) and etc, etc. BCG (Boston Consulting Group) once invite me to participate on Open Source polling because my name was listed in PostNuke credit. Why PostNuke one ask? Because even on its current BETA stage, one can say that its satified many Webdeveloper. One announce their portal in OPRAH show with thousand hits without any problem, you can read the article here [news.postnuke.com]

Advantage running PostNuke:
1. Its modular structure
2. Very Secure indeed
3. ACL system
4. A team of professional
5. Ability to run MultiSites
6. CVS availability
7. Documented in detail
8. Functionality
9. ADODB implementation make it easier to be ported another DB.
10. Installer which make Newbies life easier
11. PNInstall also make installing module very easy. Initialize and the activated.
12. Powerfull and easy admin function
13. and much much more.

One could say that PHP Nuke have more modules. Is that true? I have not seen PHP Nuke modules that did not available in PostNuke and the PostNuke released (.8) will have application to port those modules. The new smart template make PostNuke very flexible in the future. I believe many webdeveloper hate *Nuke because they look the same, so to accomodate this request .8 will have a new dynamic template. I even reali

Read the rest of this comment...



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 15:24:52 CET
What has become of the often-times devisive Harry? We never hear from (or about) him. Is he still leading the anarchists that caused John to leave?




Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 2, Insighful)
by fbc on Wednesday, February 19 @ 16:09:18 CET
(User Info | Send a Message)
Hi all: Here we goes with this looong story, too long if you ask me.

Many of you know what happened between PN and PHP-Nuke... I mean, what did the PN people to me and my project when they started. The war of flames was pretty big and annoying. Since that I just decided to stay away from this kind of stuff and don't talk about competition, do what you want and don't bother me, that was my reaction and was very positive in the long term.

Knowing my position on this kind of discussions I wanted to say something about this discussion, mainly because a request of Paul, who thinks that many of you can have interest to know what I think.

So... I'll give you some story which will open your eyes on what happened in the past.

KR said that I opened the SourceForge account thanks to him... False. SourceForge account for PHP-Nuke exists since the very first version of PHP-Nuke, which can be seen and downloaded from there.

About saying that OOP (Object Oriented Programming) is a good stuff and makes stuff more stable, modular, or whatever else you want... False. OOP is good for very big project, which is not the case of PHP-Nuke (I mean VERY BIG projects) with a lot of reusable code. BUT... any good PHP programmer knows that the use (or worse, the intense use) of objects/classes in a PHP script isn't good. PHP is not efficient managing objects/classes. At least it's less efficient than managing custom user created functions. Any decent PHP 4 book will say this to you: If you can manage to have your software working without using OOP, there isn't any reason to use objects, because of performance issues.

About security... Many people can think that I don't care about security... I care, a lot. But what I don't do is to publish "exploits" in my site about my software... PLEASE!!! And NO... I'll never change my mind about this, I'll never publish an exploit, I'll publish a fix but I'll not contribute to those f***ing script kiddies out there.

Paul is the perfect proof of the above affirmation, he's a direct witness of my interest on this matter... is secret yes, but there is interest.

At this point, PHP-Nuke 6.5 is maybe the most secure script out there, was insecure in the past? yes... but now, a few version after there was a lot of work on security.

Another issue... The installation... PHP-Nuke is a 1-2-3 to install. Doesn't have an install script (and maybe there will never be one) but it's easy. Many of can say how many minutes took to install PHP-Nuke 6.0... config.php edit and run the program from your browser... Voila! Magic! all is created in the background... On PHP-Nuke 6.5 this method isn't implemented yet since I changed the SQL layer, but I'm thinking in a nice method to do this auto-install in the 6.5 version, same goes for the upgrade process in future version. Just run the program and it's done, anyway this will cost one more query... but it's worst the effort.

CVS... don't needed. End of story.

Development team... same as CVS. While I appreciate a lot those people that helps me out with any version, fixing bugs, translating files, catching security issues, making suggestions, etc... I think that a complete development team will convert PHP-Nuke in a total mess. I know this code as my own hand, nobody can offer me anything like this. Working in team is nice for some projects... large projects, the Linux Kernel, to mention one, which will be a madness for one only people. So, I'll always accept help from anyone, from time to time, some people appears and make a big and nice contribution... like the folks at NukeCops (this site FYI :P) and Tom who ported the phpBB 2 forums... We managed to work together with excelent results, but this doesn't mean that will be a dev team in the future.

Documentation... there are many manuals out there... nice ones... but I need to admit that this point is maybe the most ugly thing about PHP-Nuke at this time... th

Read the rest of this comment...



Re:Old Information (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 22:49:05 CET

After a discussion with Lawrence, it appears that he based his comments on PostNuke about *very* old information (heck, this article is old) during the 0.6 / 0.7 days.

Some of his frustration is real (which is why we had a development team split) some of if seems over-blown. Nevertheless, under the current version and conditions, none of this holds true anymore.

On the other hand, much of the frustration still holds true about php-nuke - nice talk, but still frustrating to use (or to develop for). Par for the course, I guess, particularly reading Burzi's 'response'.

All I can say, is to invite people to check out PostNuke, and to experience what a well-developed CMS can do.

http://www.PostNuke.com

Harry
Project Manager - PostNuke Project



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by KingRichard on Thursday, February 20 @ 10:37:29 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com
Check out this link:

SecuritySpace

Quite interesting!!!!



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 11:42:30 CET
KR - concerning Security Space:

Interesting how? It says nothing about the criteria, what release, how it was tested, what their qualifications were, etc. I'm not defending the product per se. I could care less about all of your and their rantings about who prefers what and why. It's a bunch of cry baby stuff the way you, especially, carry on, and continue to perpetuate a past personality and ego clash.

For instance, if PN is so security superior, why did Postnuke have to issue so many security releases/patches between 10/1/2002 and 1/20/2003? And look at all the problems that this 'superior' development team caused with those releases. Don't blame me - just read the messages on the PN site.

My point is that it's great to be passionate and really evangelize 'your' product. But just speak to your product strengths and don't demean others. It's really very childish and immature.



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 21:09:47 CET
Very well put. Thank you!



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 22:33:37 CET
You still fail to see/answer the questions the other poster raised. When did they do that review? What version are they referring to? What is the basis of their assessment? What gives Nessus the right/authority to say what they do and who really cares? I don't - unless/until I see the basis of their assessment. They might well have said the same thing about PN before the flurry of patches. Timing is everything.

Postnuke comes out with patches - so does phpNuke. Your arguments are strawman arguments. They are two different, yet alike, applications. They both have flaws, security and otherwise. FB is no more/less arrogant than HZ. They both need to tame their egos.

You are the one who stated the Nessus item was 'interesting'. To me, that's about as valid as saying the original post referring to the old PN version is 'interesting'. They are both old and outdated. Much as your rehashing your ought with FB is - old and outdated. Let it go.



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 02:56:02 CET
UUh a flame war beetween pn and php -nuke. This will end in many hits for this website.



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 07:49:36 CET
What is 'interesting' about the Nessus item is that it is so vague as to be useless. You could say the same thing about Windows. Do they? Windows is provenly and documented much more vulnerable than phpNuke or PN.



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 10:55:59 CET
For those of you that care to see Queen Richard's true colors, see his comments here:

http://news.postnuke.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2363

He is not capable of a civil discussion. At nukecops he is just trying to hide his true self, although not too well even then! As previous posts have alluded to, it is personal crap with FB and Queen Richard. It's got nothing to do with the actual product comparisons.



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 13:52:27 CET
postnuke is a breeze to setup and to customize. The information is easily accessible...

This article is nothing but agenda laden misleading hooey.

Give me postnuke anyday over FB's carelessness and lack of attention to basic issues such as security




Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Friday, February 21 @ 21:44:49 CET
(User Info | Send a Message)
Just to clear something up for all you PostNuke users out there - You should really pay more attention to PHP-Nuke.

Security is tighter in the latest release of PHP-Nuke than PostNuke has ever been, incorporating features that most of you postnuke writers will probably steal and use for your own clones.

Also, I have a fair few associates who are still hackers, and they can crack into any postNuke site in 20 seconds flat - I've timed them - and they've had full - note FULL access to the administration section when they have. The fastest I've seen them hack the least secure PHP-Nuke over the past year is 30 seconds approx. (32 seconds to be precise). That doesn't sound like PHP-Nuke is less secure to me.

The latest version of PHP-Nuke (6.5) prior to it's RC1 with the new security procedures in it, it took them 5 minutes to hack into it.

Please. No more comments like "PHP-Nuke is not secure". Just because PostNuke enforces the use of SSL (not as secure as u think folks), doesn't make it more secure than PHP-Nuke

Also, I might like to point out that there's a security procedure I'm wokring on that's more secure than FB's graphic security, PostNuke's SSL and the Anti-Bot re-write rules put together that I'm working on @ the moment - which will involve encryption right from hte client's web page on the client's PC - something that SSL doesn't do on the initial Login stage.

Artificialintel



PostNuke split again? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, February 23 @ 23:46:52 CET
Could be brewing. Take a look at http://news.postnuke.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2368



PostNuke Lost Article (Score: 1, Informative)
by Anonymous on Monday, February 24 @ 17:33:18 CET
Here is a link and the article:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.postnuke.devel/8303



Open Letter to the PostNuke community
Subject: Open Letter to the PostNuke community
From: Simon Wunderlin wunderlin.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:19:18 +0100
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.web.postnuke.devel
Reply-to: pndev postnuke.com

Open Letter to the PostNuke community

As you all know PostNuke is based on the idea of community, its
developed utilizing open source methods and of course a free software
product, released under the GNU/GPL 2 license.

PostNuke has been born out of the need to free the code, allow it to
evolve and become all of what we collectively dream and wish for this
marvelous endeavor to be.

This goal has not been easy, since its very beginning; PostNuke has been
the cause of controversy and the greatest of passions.

Passions so powerful, that both attracts and rejects the many, one
constant prevails, the code and its service to the world.

Unfortunately as any other human endeavor, it has from time to time
flaws, or disagreements, when this happens we can opt for one of 3
choices, you can continue on, and fight every step of the way, you can
agree to disagree, or you can go separate ways.

Irreconcilable differences create the grounds for divorce and parting of
friends, or of any collective effort.

Sadly these cross roads are here with us again.

After months of hard work, dedication and devotion to this project, our
efforts have been once again compromised.

As a result the PostNuke development team held an extraordinary meeting,
in order to evaluate the prevailing conditions that deeply affect the
future of PostNuke.

The result of a unanimous consensus is released for your perusal,
analysis and forming of your personal opinion which we value the most.

The PostNuke development team considers that in order to successfully
achieve the community and development goals a strong leader and a clear
road map is required.

The road map and current goals have been clearly defined in past
articles (The Future: where is PN going? and An overview of the Phoenix
template rendering engine), so no need to dwell in that here at this time.

Unfortunately, the current Project Leader has never fulfilled the
responsibilities he was bestowed by the former project leader, sadly he
is now after months of absolute absence, promoting a radical step back
in development, which would for ever change the way the project evolves,
and this without ever even consulting with his *own development team*.

In light of these facts we have arrived to the following conclusions
which we submit to the community.

As any reputed sociologist would claim, "He who forgets history, is
bound to repeat it", this times call for a serious reflection on the
events past, present and future of the project, the code must be free
and be allowed to grow and evolve without any restriction, we work based
on the premise layout by the GPL which guarantees us the right to learn,
brake a part and modify freely the code in order to satisfy our needs of
knowledge or any others, without any limits or boundaries, this rights
extend to us all and are the corner stone of free software.

In order to make this possible the source must be allowed to be shared,
and taken into paths that are natural to its developers, without any
restriction or limit imposed in the process, with projects as PostNuke
that benefit from a global reach, community input is also vital for this
to succeed.

A project, like the one we are w

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lostnuke? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 26 @ 20:49:53 CET
Read about the other PN! http://www.lostnuke.com



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Lawrence_Krubner on Wednesday, June 11 @ 23:05:29 CEST
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It's been something like a year since I posted my remarks, and the perspective of a year puts the situation with the Nukes in a different light.

First of all, let me note the irony of my remarks getting this much attention so many months after they were made. I just went and told Peter Agelasto about the discussion on this page. Both of us had about the same reaction: if we'd gotten this much of a response to our complaints a year ago, we would not have been inspiried to run off and try to build our own CMS. Peter ended up putting up some financial support so some of us (me, Costin Breveaneua, now Matt Clark) could work on a new CMS. Our efforts might have been better spent investing our time in PostNuke, if only we'd been able to find a way "in" to PostNuke. Matt Clark and myself had both tried the Nukes on various sites and found them too hard to customize.

Harry tells me that most of the issues I complained of have now been resolved. I've no reason to doubt him and PostNuke sounded like, in theory, it was eventually going to have a good architecture.

I think many good things can be said about the Nukes. However, that doesn't change what my actual experience was: spending some time, everyday, on various forums, asking questions, and not getting any useable information. Some of my questions never drew a response, others got the response "What version are you using?" and then I would say 7.03, and they would say "Oh, I've never used that version." I think at one point I got a response from someone fairly high up, perhaps it was Harry, but his response was "Upgrade to the newest version" and I'd already invested a month trying to customize the version I had.

I also tried to simply walk through the code, starting at the index page, and imagining how a page loaded, and I tried to follow the process outwards. I thought if I could simply follow how a page loaded, then I could figure out everything else I needed. Two things limited my efforts: there were not enough comments for me to figure things out, and one had to learn ADO, which seemed like a huge investment of my time to make for a product I wasn't yet sure I was going to use.

I'll give you an example of how the comments were lacking: the first page that was included() after the index page held only one function, and there was a comment like "I still don't understand why this has to go here." That was all. There was no mention of why it was an issue, what were the engineering issues on both sides. Only one more sentence would have been needed to make that comment useful, something like "I think we should load the main functions here but King Richard feels strongly that that would introduce security problems." Just one more sentence would have allowed me to gain some understanding of the code. However, in that case, there was at least a comment. For large stretches of the code there were no comments at all.

Trying to do my own CMS has made me sympathetic to some of the things I was not sympathetic about before. The PostNuke crowd describes Burzi's development style as closed, but having put so much work into a CMS of my own, I find that I too would like to keep control over the core architecture, and only open up non-core code.

I got at least one good idea from looking at PostNuke code: someone, maybe Richard, used to leave comments with dates and initials. I liked that. In our code, we write lots of comments, and date and initial them all.

To a large extent, I'm glad I did not get this kind of response this year. Developing a cms has been fun. There is an element of self-expression in a major software project. Programming does not allow one as much room for expression as art, but there is something in it. Getting together with friends to do a CMS is like getting friends together to do a rock band. Every CMS is a bit different, each has its own flavor. Doing one's own means being able to shape it just the way you want. As an example, in our CMS w

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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Lawrence_Krubner on Wednesday, June 11 @ 20:52:25 CEST
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I guess this conversation is already over, but I'm only stumbling on it now, months later.

I think my original post was misunderstood. PHP-Nuke and PostNuke are both a breeze to set up. The first time I set up PostNuke I was amazed how easy it was. Also, both Nukes have an impressive array of modules that can be plugged in. The range of options that confront you as an Adminstrator is really wonderful.

However, none of that changes the points I made in my first article: the transition from .6 to .7 was rough. I was trying to customize the output of my installation, which was nearly impossible since no one had any idea how output worked for the version I was using. I tried to learn the whole code myself, but there were not enough comments or guides.

I understand many improvements have been made to both pieces of software during the last year, and I wish them both the best of luck.



Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by sharly on Sunday, May 18 @ 20:04:35 CEST
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by sharly on Sunday, May 18 @ 20:08:30 CEST
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by sharly on Sunday, May 18 @ 20:09:03 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message)
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