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Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner |
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 EDIT: 21 Feb 2003: Read All Comments Nested from participants such as PHP-Nuke Developer Francisco Burzi and PostNuke Developers KingRichard and Harry. Also learn about other derivatives like Xaraya and LostNuke. And find out how Thatware started it all.
Quoting Lawrence Krubner from an archived post found at wrox.com below. I have to disagree. Look at the remarkable advancements in PHP-Nuke today. phpBB2 forums are integrated, extra security is being taken and many bug fixes have been implemented. But I do concur on the Post-Nuke sentiments. I couldn't even get .703 to run and found no support. PHP-Nuke fans have support everywhere. Viva PHPNuke.
> I have run into conversation about a PHP program called PostNuke. Can
> anyone explain to me just what this is?
A content management system, a rather easy way to set up a site that allows for community posting.
The background history: Originally Francisco Burzi sat down and created PHPNuke. His program became popular and soon scaled to a level that was beyond Burzi's ability to manage. He accepted help from outside programmers but he treated them badly. He often did not credit them for work they did, and also he failed to fix bugs they repeatedly pointed out to him, even when they submitted bug fixes. A number of these programmers became angry, and decided to fork PHPNuke, and come up with their own version, which is PostNuke.
On the bright side: PostNuke aims for a higher level of code quality than what you'll find in PHPNuke. Therefore it should be more stable. The developer team is more democratic. There is more emphasis on fixing bugs. The design is more modular, therefore, in theory, it should be easier to customize.
However, I have tried to use PostNuke and it was an inhuman pain. It is undergoing very rapid development so a new version is out every 4 months and these versions are very different from one another. The core developer team is still making some fairly fundamental changes to the underlying architecture, rejecting decisions that Burzi made in terms of design. The changes are so fundamental that someone with experience with version .63 couldn't help me out because I was working with version .703. And I started using version .703 right before version .71 came out, which had a totally different architecture for buffering output and then printing it to the screen. This was a big deal since I was trying to customize the output to the screen, and no one wanted to help with my problems since my problems were with an "out of date" version.
I spent a month trying to customize PostNuke for a client, and then I gave up. It was too hard and the support was non-existent. Although you'll find many people in the community who want to help you, you'll find no one who has experience with the particular version you've got. And, worst, the developer team puts all of its energy into writing code and none of it into answering people's questions. This, to my mind, compares badly with Phorum, another open source PHP project, where Brian Moon and the other core developers spend significant amounts of time in the support forums answering people's questions.
If you were me, you would avoid PostNuke like it was small pox.
A bunch of us PHP coders here in Charlottesville, Virginia have recently had bad experiences with both PHPNuke and PostNuke. Therefore we've decided to write our own community CMS from scratch. I know its been done a hundred times before, but every group needs something different, and I suppose sometimes it is easier to write something from scratch than to customize existing software.
If I knew Java then I would use ArsDigita. Or if I had my own server and felt like learning Tcl and AOL_Server. Phillip Greenspun thought about these issues a long time before the rest of us did and he came up with what is probably the best software for the job. Originally it only worked with Oracle as the database, but now it can also work with PostgreSQL. But it is resource hungry.
I'm working on two projects right now, a weblog and a CMS. We hope the CMS will be fairly light and simple. Of course, they all start that way. Then they go downhill.
take care,
Lawrence Krubner
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Posted on Sunday, February 16 @ 12:31:07 CET by Zhen-Xjell |
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Average Score: 3.22
Votes: 142
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, February 16 @ 23:50:48 CET | Pure shit...
PostNuke... more stable???? this guy is crazy? is him sick?
PHP-Nuke, at this time, is the most secure and stable CMS/Portal system out there.
AND... it's easy to add stuff, its clean design is far superior than any other... yes, no comments in the code, but who need them with that clean code? Clean == Human Readable |
Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by jdon285 on Friday, February 21 @ 01:05:33 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) | Let me say that phpnuke has been very easy for me to handle, installation, adding mods ect...
The best thing I like about it is the support, I have not really had to ask any technical questions due to searching these forums, all the answers have been there. Though I'm kind of worried about upgrading my current nuke to 6.5 after all the work it's taken to import an existing phpbb forum I am still looking forward to the new release.
I just started playing with this and am having a great time, I didn't really even know what html was 6 months ago, now I'm putting this to use.
It's all what you put into it, what you want and and what your willing to do and learn to get what you want out of it.
Thanks for the forum support nukers!!
Jack |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 19:11:23 CET | Having used both PHP-Nuke and PostNuke, I can attest to each being very easy to use. (given minimal base knowledge of the Server environment)
After playing with both systems for several months, I chose PostNuke about a year ago because it actually published a roadmap, and STUCK TO IT.
Now, with their API (although something of a pain in the ass to code to) when I write a custom module, I have some assurance that it will work in any future versions of PostNuke. That alone makes PostNuke more 'stable' to a developer.
I've never had a problem with PostNuke that I couldn't fix myself or find a fix for on the net.
As for phpBB, there are modules for both v1.4 or 2.0 on either PHP-Nuke or PostNuke so that's a mute point.
As a developer I prefer PostNuke. It just leaves me with a smoother feeling. I never felt overly comfortable with FB's sporatic outbursts and rants. With PostNuke the development is more distributed, and in fact has survived the death of one of the developers.
Long live PostNuke. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, February 23 @ 14:55:13 CET | Ummm, wrong.
Start by looking at security in myPHPNuke and go from there. PHP NUke is both a code and security nightmare. PostNuke isn't much better, but, is moving in the right direction.
Chris_r |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by spapoops on Monday, February 17 @ 13:17:16 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.spapoops.com | I had no "history"or preconceptions about CMS before I begin looking for "something better" than the custom ASP application that I had been using.
I looked at all the CMS's and installed every one out there that would run (and would actually install:) on my IIS hosting services.
There is no other CMS than PHP-Nuke - Open Source or commercial.
One of the best applications of any kind anywhere and a community that is also one the best anywhere.
I've had it in production since 6.5 beta 1.
Bugs, yep.
Fixes?
I've had to actually wait an entire hour for a fix:)
Bryan |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 18 @ 09:42:31 CET | Heeemm this is a really bull shit article. I'm sorry to stumble on this one. But I gotta say one think. Please thinks before you make a comment. PostNuke or PHPNuke have different features.
PHP Nuke OK, not a bad CMS. Its easy to read by KiddyScripters. There are too many bugs and no Documentation. Plus you have to pay to participate on BETA. Furthermore no installation procedure and no user Tiers. No ability to run Multisites and much much more. Since its running by FB alone then no help can be found or you will be in the dark until he release the new version. Plus every version doesnt have back compatibility. Plus no installer for upgrade.
PostNuke in other hand have been mutated into a giant CMS system. Its easy to used, 100% secure, Documented, Multi tier user, Installer, and GPL. It even allow to run Multisites easily. Very modular and back compatibility with all its old mods (lacking for PHP Nuke) Since its modular you dont have to worried modifing the CORE. Plus its come with HOOKS system. Yes I understand for a newbies Object Oriented programming can be difficult. But who need programming if you are a webmaster. User Friendly is the most important. No support? you must be kidding me? The forum is always there, The WIKI document is there, The IRC channel is alway on, and much much more. One other strong point for PostNuke is that it can handle large traffics sites (one site appearing in OPRAH show without problem) There are so much thing that I can say here.. But.... you should find out your self.
regards, |
Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1, Insighful)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 02:43:39 CET | PostNuke started off with good intentions, but now 99% of the original devlopers are at www.xaraya.com
Spend a few days with these ass-clowns and you will quickly see why all the adults who actually write good code left.
PostNuke is NOW run by a very small group of people with very large egos. They take all suggestions and feedback as "complaints and flames".
Their development team now communicates on a private mailing list and a secret forum that nobody else is allowed to access
- this started around February, 2003
Security?
What a joke! mail to security@postnuke.com bounced for over 6 months. Read more about their attitude towards security here: http://news.postnuke.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-Comments&file=index&req=showreply&tid=12279&sid=2342&pid=12144&mode=&order=&thold=#12279
Nice long-ass URL there eh? Try writing that down or remembering it.
Make sure you follow the link on that article to this very interesing, still unanswered article at http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/bugtraq/2002-11/0105.html [archi]
PostNuke also claims:
"The best guarantee of displaying your webpages on all browsers due to HTML 4.01 transitional compliance"
Try and validate ANY of their cluttered and utterly confusing *.postnuke.com sites, or the TachionNET.org site and you will see they are totally clueless.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpostnuke.com%2F
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.postnuke.com%2F&doctype=%28detect+automatically%29&charset=%28detect+automatically%29
When I personally fixed hundred of PHP warnings, errors, notices and made HTML and CSS compliance and a really annoying modules regeneration bug attempted to submit the changes to the project, instead of thanking me and accepting my contributions they FLAMED me for it and told me to stop complaining. They cited the fact that a major core rewrite was underway, and that no developers were going to be working on the .7.2.3 release unless it was a major security concern.
So where does that leave people that want to use PostNuke right now?
Well, until xaraya 1.0 is released, check out http://lostnuke.com [lostnuke.com]
Basically it takes a .7.2.3 release of PostNuke and fixes a whole bunch of broken stuff that people still ask about on a daily basis.
It is far more secure and stable than a default installation of PostNuke.
In the interest of security I have changed the following settings of the default install:
anonpost is now 0ff by default (Allowed anonymous users to post comments)
pnAntiCracker is now On by default (With this Off the installation is vulnerable to XSS attacks)
seclevel is now High by default (The default Security Level was Medium)
links_anonaddlinklock is now Off (Allowed anonymous users to post links)
Some of the highlights of LostNuke are:
Short URL support by default. You can easily turn this feature off, although I have no idea why you would.
The option to sort News Stories via the Solution by baev.
LostNuke actually delivers what PostNuke promised: The best guarantee of displaying your webpages on all browsers due to HT
Read the rest of this comment... |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 18:52:03 CET | If you had problems with trying to get PostNuke fixed, try fixing something on PHP-Nuke. I did and didn't even get flames back. Just nothing.
And if you think that PostNuke has security problems, there are more on PHPNuke... |
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Couldn't be more wrong (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 18 @ 14:10:07 CET | First of all why would you post a link to an article that is so old?
Second of all if you can get PHP-Nuke to run PostNuke is even easier to install.
IMO PostNuke surpasses PHP-Nuke in every way, stability, security, features, modules.
One of the complaints is the version changes and certain things not working with newer versions.
.703 modules can run on newer versions with PastNuke (not sure why you would want to do that though, i can't think of a module that hasn't been ported)
.723 for the most part is fully comptible with just about everything from the .71x series, and in the future compatibility will be maintained.
Look at PHP-Nuke they change forum software more then I change close, yeah integrated solution. While it's a solution it's not a very good one. PostNuke has multiple forum software that can be used.
PHP-Nuke has more modules but would you rather have quaility or quantity? I for one love the stability and well written useful PostNuke modules.
Support is top notch, I know becuase I help support users.
Open Development - PostNuke has an open development, unlike Burzi the sole programmer who only lets people contribute when he is stumped or needs help with something.
Time will tell my friends, PostNuke as it stands right now is a better CMS plain and simple and will only continue to blow PHP-Nuke out of the water unless Burzi decides to do something innovative instead of tossing a bunch of peoples modules in a package and releasing it as 6.5 ,7.0 etc.
bharvey42 -- Somebody who actually uses and knows how to install all flavors of Nuke.
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Re: Couldn't be more wrong (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Tuesday, February 18 @ 14:35:10 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) | really? Then why doesn't PN have a graphic security check. Why is it that on my server running 4 PHP-Nuke sites and 1 PN site, the PN falls over more than the PHP-Nuke sites put together. Why is it that modules are very easy to write in PHP-Nuke compared with the restrictions and requirements of PN. Why is it PHP-Nuke has full compatability with old modules reaching back to version 5.0 in the latest versions. Why is it that PHP-Nuke is the most popular CMS out @ the moment.
Answer those - politely - if u can |
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Re: Couldn't be more wrong (Score: 1)
by KingRichard on Wednesday, February 19 @ 06:48:58 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com | Graphic security check? How is that system make PHP Nuke more secure?
Why is PHP Nuke is easy to write is because you dont understand Object Oriented structure. A very good programmer will understand this easily. Plus the restriction help you create a standarization which is lacking in PHP Nuke.
Are you saying my old PHP Nuke modules work on the latest version of PHP Nuke? hehehehe....You must be joking!
Why is it PHP Nuke is the most popular CMS out there? because it have so much bugs that there are one time create a headline saying that Linux is very insecure because of it. Furthermore you should be wondering why MandrakeSoft finally drop their support toward PHP Nuke.
BTW since you never used PostNuke, please dont make any comment of the thing you never try.
Regarding why so many user used PHP Nuke on your server because most of them never knew PostNuke. BTW you should also check how many webhosting will ban PHP Nuke in their server due to its memory hogs.
Hope this answer most of your question politely |
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Re: Couldn't be more wrong (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, February 19 @ 17:19:29 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) | I don't understand Object oriented programming huh?
Is that why I have a degree in programming covering C, C++ and Java??
Get ur facts streight in the future dumbass
Artificialintel |
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Re: Couldn't be more wrong (Score: 1)
by spud on Thursday, June 09 @ 22:17:00 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Learn to spell straight DUMBASS! You think you know so much and you can't even use correct grammar or spelling? |
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Re: Couldn't be more wrong (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 13:25:41 CET | Perhaps you don't know how to set up your PostNuke site properly.
I currently run 4 PostNuke sites 3 of which are modified and 1 that is integrated with other things and very modified, and guess what all 4 work without hitches. So it's either you or your setup.
Read KingRichards response to your module question as he already took the words out of my mouth.
As far as being more popular then PostNuke there are a few reasons, 1. Most people discover PHP-Nuke before they discover PostNuke. 2. PHP-Nuke has also been around longer.
I see many people start off with PHP-Nuke then quickly migrate to PostNuke.
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 2, Interesting)
by chatserv on Tuesday, February 18 @ 14:58:52 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://nukeresources.com | Usually users of one or the other CMS get heated up when comparisons are made
between the two, i for one will not trash PostNuke as i don't use and thus can't
give a educated opinion about it, but i can on the other hand give out my
opinions on PHP-Nuke, when mentioning lack of support make sure you check your
sources as they don't seem to be very up-to-date, just to point out but a mere
handful:
http://www.nukeforums.com [www.nukeforums.com]
http://www.nukecops.com [www.nukecops.com]
http://www.computercops.biz [www.computercops.biz]
http://www.nukeresources.com [www.nukeresources.com]
http://www.nukesupport.com [www.nukesupport.com]
http://www.nuke4newbie.org [www.nuke4newbie.org]
http://www.nuketutorials.com [www.nuketutorials.com]
http://www.warrenonline.ca/tutorials.php [www.warrenonline.ca]
http://www.phpnuke.org [www.phpnuke.org]
http://www.karakas-online.de/EN-Book [www.karakas-online.de]
Now about installers, PHP-Nuke comes with upgrade scripts, they may not be
automated but they exist and that's what should really matter, and the Nuke
community produces support files for new users (e.g. Analyzer.php & NukeSQL.php),
so i'd say support and resources are a big part of PHP-Nuke's community.
No CMS is 100% secure, all have had security advisories relating to them at one
point or the other, PostNuke is easier to install? Bravo, but i will mention
that its coding is no walk to the park when it comes to modifying it from what
I've heard from expert coders, if this has changed recently then again, bravo, a
user should be able to pick whatever CMS he/she feels will get the job done for
them, i would under no circumstances bash anyone for deciding to use PostNuke,
phpWebSite, Xoops, MyPHP-Nuke or any other CMS out there, variety brings the
spice to our otherwise dull lives, if we the members of the PHP-Nuke community
have chosen to remain faithful to PHP-Nuke then no one should have a problem
with that. Peace. |
Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by KingRichard on Wednesday, February 19 @ 07:03:17 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com | | I have to agree to you and respect your decision in using PHP Nuke. And Yes, for new developer PostNuke can be difficult sometime due to its Object Oriented structure. However one can easily developed or modified the modules once you read and understand the PostNuke documentation and its structure. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by phpnut on Tuesday, February 18 @ 19:31:59 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) | As a user of both PhpNuke and PostNuke I can comment on this article.
For a portal that you wish to make information publicly accessible PhpNuke is a good solution. In comparison to PostNuke, PhpNuke does have many modules available to it and many seem geared toward the average end user. I do not see many PHPNuke modules that could be used in a business or corporate environment.
PostNuke has a very detailed strict user permissions system allowing you to limit access to every module and area of your site to a general group or a specific user. The permissions system allows you to create groups and users with special permissions. You can add a user to one or many of these groups to give a variety of complex permissions easily. This is handy if you need moderators, sub admins, and other people helping manage a commercial site and wish to limit admin access.
I think both PostNuke and PhpNuke are excellent CMS's for different audiences. PhpNuke is a better choice if you are a hobbyist and non-commercial end user. If you are a business or organization that needs good management tools then PostNuke is going to suite your needs better in my professional opinion.
Here are some PostNuke modules that are very popular among business end users.
Xanthia Theme Engine [pnapi.com]: http://pnapi.com
ContentExpess Content management [pn.arising.net]: http://pn.arising.net/ce/
Static Content Management [postnuke.wunderlin.net]: http://postnuke.wunderlin.net
PostCalendar [postcalendar.tv]: http://postcalendar.tv/
FormExpress Forms Generator [www.stutchbury.net]: http://www.stutchbury.net
pnAddressBook (Palm Style): http://smiatek.com
LDAP [www.olos.nl]: http://www.olos.nl
NukeOWL [www.sitescandinavia.net]: http://www.sitescandinavia.net
PNphpBB2 [www.itsallbutstraw.com]: http://www.itsallbutstraw.com
PostNuke Web Site [www.postnuke.com] http://www.postnuke.com
PhpNuke Web Site [www.phpnuke.org] http://www.phpnuke.org
PhpNut
www.phpnut.com |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 18 @ 21:26:59 CET | | PostNuke is in fact very easy! I setup website in just a few minutes. I have no idea what this paper was talking about. |
Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 18 @ 23:04:09 CET | "I have no idea what this paper was talking about"
That is very evident. You don't have a clue. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 25 @ 00:10:19 CET | "That is very evident. You don't have a clue."
No, it's not evident. Parent post indicated that his experience did not bear out the same difficulties the article described.
Now if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. If you can't say anything constructive, oh clueless wonder, don't say anything. |
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PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1, Informative)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 18 @ 23:39:31 CET | How does PHPNuke stack up to Xaraya? Xaraya is a fork of PostNuke... makes you wonder what PostXaraya will be like ;)
Xaraya now has LDAP integrated which makes it a strong candidate for corporate users. Flexible secure document management is the only component lacking from Xaraya. With NukeOwl integrated it will be without comparison. The combination of the two makes for a system that offers more features and stability (plus open source code) than the big commercial platforms (M$ sharepoint, iplanet, websphere etc).
Some interesting Xaraya links:
http://www.xaraya.com [www.xaraya.com]
http://www.xaraya.com/newsgroups/ [www.xaraya.com]
http://xaraya.com/downloads/ [xaraya.com]
http://www.xaraya.com/about/worldmap.php [www.xaraya.com] |
Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Tuesday, February 18 @ 23:52:56 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | Very interesting and thanks for sharing. Your demo system looks very promising. Especially the LDAP authentication that will go a long way in a corporate LDAP environment. I notice that the alpha phase isn't supported in a production environment. What is your timeline for beta and gold? |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 00:45:46 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | Please expand on some of that history. Who were the folks that left to start PostNuke and who exactly from there is working on Xaraya now?
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by mediatech (webmaster_at_mediatech.net) on Wednesday, February 19 @ 01:35:12 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://pnapi.com | John Cox, the late Gregg Allan, Sean Finkle and Harry Zink Started PostNuke. John Cox, Gregor Rothfuss, Doug Dalton, Jan Schrage, Frank Besler, Paul Rosania, Marcel van der Boom, Carl P. Corliss, and many others comprise the Xaraya team. I think it's over 30 programmers. More info can be found at
http://www.xaraya.com/roadmap.php [www.xaraya.com]
http://www.xaraya.com/about/projectplan.php
http://docs.xaraya.com/docs/rfcs/rfcindex.html
Here are some links to fill in the history
John Cox (niceguyeddie)
http://www.advogato.org/person/niceguyeddie/ [www.advogato.org]
Interview with John Cox
http://www.easino.com/article53.html [www.easino.com]
Project and Fork Histories
http://www.advogato.org/person/CaptainNemo/diary.html?start=7
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 01:40:58 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | Name are not familiar... do they have online aliases? Like who is KingRichard for instance? |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by mediatech (webmaster_at_mediatech.net) on Wednesday, February 19 @ 01:57:21 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://pnapi.com | KingRichard is Lippo Karawaci and used to be a PHPNuke module developer.
KingRichard left shortly after John Cox and the rest started PostNuke. KingRichard runs http://nukeaddon.com/
Everyone has aliases. For me it's easier to keep up with real names. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 01:59:51 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | Can you give me a one-to-one mapping then? It would help clear things up in my mind. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by mediatech (webmaster_at_mediatech.net) on Wednesday, February 19 @ 02:38:04 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://pnapi.com | | Sure but that'll take a bit of time. Need to get some rest. Email me at webmaster@mediatech.net ;) |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 02:40:31 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | Bypassing the email, I'd like to get that list posted here for the membership awareness. Take your time, we're not going anywhere. And thanks. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by brihana25 on Thursday, February 20 @ 03:30:17 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.xaraya.com | I'm not mediatech, but I hope you don't mind if I answer this one.
XARAYA Core Dev Team
Project Management Committe
John Cox - niceguyeddie
Paul Rosania - paul
Gregor Rothfuss - gregor
Marcel van der Boom - MrB
Core Developers
Marie Altobelli - ladyofdragons
Mahmood Al Yousif - mahmood
Frank Besler - besfred
Flavio Botello - nuncanada
Marco Canini - marco
Mike Collins - subgeni
Carl P. Corliss - Rabbitt
Michael Cortez - mcortez
Michel Dalle - mikespub
Doug Daulton - Apakuni
Chris Dudley - miko
Sascha Endlicher - Karateka
Scot Gardner - NukeGeek
Isaac Golding - isaac
Jorge Guttierez - j0taj0ta
Curtis Hays - stratagem
Abraham Irawan - brumie
Chad Kraeft - StEgo
Steve MacGregor - grape
Volodymyr Metenchuk - voll
Gary Mitchell - wb9tpg
Mark Peters - Itsme
Johnny Robeson - johnny
Pablo Roca - Proca
Jan Schrage - jan
Jim Starkweather - jims
Jon Todaro - BoNe
Marty Vance- Dracos
Andy Varganov - andyv
Bjarne Varoystrand - Black_Skorpio
Michael Wechsler - slinky
This is the current list of Xaraya core developers. Of course, in such a fluid environment as Open Source, it may change at any time.
If you have any other questions, or if you want to learn more about Xaraya, you can visit http://www.xaraya.com. You'll find out a bit about who we are, what we do, and what we have planned for the future of Internet Application Framework.
To take Xaraya for a test drive, visit http://demo.xaraya.com. All data is dynamic, and is reset every 24 hours. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 16:19:33 CET | yes and only a handful of those people contribute to the direction or coding of the project.
so far the demo is confusing and looks likeit was designed by programmers for programmers. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Thursday, February 20 @ 22:52:06 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | Actually that is just a relative approach I think. I say so because in supporting PHP-Nuke for months now I see that many newbies take that approach about PHPNuke even.
All the CMSs are nice and serve their own clientele. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by sengsara on Friday, March 12 @ 02:36:54 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://batamweb.net | Lippo Karawaci? That's not his name. Lippo is a Bank name and Karawaci is a place, a region. When we said Lippo Karawaci we meant Lippo Bank, Karawaci Branch.
Got into a taxi
Cab Driver : 'Where you want to go, miss?'
Me : 'Lippo Karawaci.'
lol lol lol
Really funny that someone got associated with a bank. Anyway I still don't know what his real name is but I saw a KingRichard at http://postnuke-id.com.
I believe this KingRichard is Indonesian. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 01:34:54 CET | Gregory,
Gregory, you must be a marketing guy ;-) You sounds like one.
Be fair. You compare *.Nuke system with the IBMs, MS' Documentums, Interwovens of this world (Portal and CMS products).
Neither PhpNuke nor PostNuke nor Xaraya can directly compete with these commercial apps and never will or can. *.Nuke system are for small and mid size companies and communities. The maintenance of ALL *.Nuke is a nightmare. The requirements for large companies a fairly larger than *.Nuke could ever fulfil. If you think Xaraya could compete with them, you're dreaming. Have you ever run a *.Nuke site with >50000 existing, active users with >1000000 content items, >1000000 hits per day? I guess, NO. It's an architectural problem that can not be solved without a COMPLETE rework and that would definitily lead to backward incompatibilities. We all can either stick with it and live or make the best with the limitations or start from the ground up with something new. I personally stick with *.Nuke because i know how hard it is to compete with larger commercial apps.
Well, and LDAP ... that's only one of the more important requirements (here topic system integration) of many for corporates.
BTW, Xaraya is on a good way and i will look at it from to time to time. Really nice work and good ideas. But finnally, only time will show, if all features will ever come and(!) work. Maybe Xaraya could become a real success, then.
Cheers,
Andreas Stratmann |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by mediatech (webmaster_at_mediatech.net) on Wednesday, February 19 @ 01:50:14 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://pnapi.com | I am a marketing guy LOL... goes well with being a themes designer. I have no experience with Xaraya personally but I have been keeping an eye on their development as do subscribe to their mailing lists. It’s fascinating to watch them work… like a well organized beehive.
Scalability is one thing Xaraya is strong in. It’s also lean on DB queries and has a very fast template engine that called Block Layout. I don't know what the numbers are for server load but I'm sure we'll find out in the coming months.
Xaraya is a total rewrite of the PostNuke core. I believe they have solved most of the architectural problems inherited by PostNuke and PHPNuke.
I personally have a wait and see attitude and I'm very anxious to see Xaraya's numbers when it is tested in a mission critical production environment.
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 09:55:25 CET | Yeah,
they are really well organized. That's what me impressed me most. Wonder what will happen if more and more 3rd party module and block developers jump into the boat. Hope Xaraya's high quality standards will not suffer.
Andreas |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 01:57:51 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | Andreas as a side note I would like to point out a couple of notes here. There is a site running Nuke (other than phpnuke.org) that has over 100,000 members. At this time there are a couple hundred folks browsing the site right now. The owner also participates here at Nuke Cops:
click me [nukecops.com]
The site is found at http://www.belchfire.net/ [www.belchfire.net].
Now to mention PHPNuke.org. There are literally half a thousand visitors on at any given moment with over 60,000 registered members. In a single day the forums themselves there generated over 100 new posts within several hours. Pages load quickly too.
Now can this be achieved in a corporate environment? I don't know because I haven't done it yet. However it doesn't mean it cannot be done. Folks have come to me seeking help and guidance for such an environment so I know at least folks are implementing nuke in corporate environments.
Here is another oddball for you. The old UBB version that was open source was obtained by DSL Reports [dslreports.com] a couple years back and has since been developed into a unique CMS system that does very well itself.
Can open source systems compete? Yes I believe they can. I do know of pharmaceutical companies that are beginning to use MySQL over Oracle due to the overwhelming price.
Yes, they may not be running the open source on high priced projects or business critical applications but the reason I have seen for that is due to the support. Businesses pay for support and demand that support fly out onsite within hours of a critical problem. I don't believe any of the Nuke derivatives will do that. Hence that is one reason why open source wouldn't get into the corporate environment, at least in terms of business critical applications.
But may I end this with asking, do the PHP-Nuke derivatives credit PHP-Nuke at least? |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 02:39:37 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | You are chock full of information. And one more question to enlighten not only myself on the history of all these CMSs, but also our readers here online. Can you lay out the timeline for us? Is Thatware the beginning of all the Nukes?
I've read in the PHPNuke.org forums reference to Thatware but couldn't find any evidence that the Nukes were ultimately diverged from it. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 09:58:08 CET | Zhen-Xjell,
thanks for your note. I think running a public site with 100000 registered users is quite different than running a site of a company with 100000 employees using it as intranet, extranet and for public business infos.
The main differences are: there are much more transactions and more systems to integrate (ever interfaced *.Nuke with a mainframe? SAP R/3?) and the user friendliness becomes really a big issue.
MySQL as 'web database' (means read-only database) is absolutely ok as long as you know how to pull your corporate data from other sources in MySql and the data is not changed to frequently. I totally agree that Oracle, DB2, MS SQL are totally oversized (and to expensive) for the standard web business.
Finally, it all depends on the requirements.
BTW, i know a company with >50000 employees trying to use a Nuke system for HR stuff and more. Can't say if they are confident with the current state.
Bye,
Andreas |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 15:34:11 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | I agree in that context the purpose of an XML based system was supposed to prevail. Unfortunately I haven't seen a content management system that takes the cake in terms of full integration with other systems.
Ok, lets see Documentum for instance. Great document and web management system. But it only goes so far.
One company I used to work for decided to build their own XML based content management system that interfaced with LDAP authentication, MS Domain authentication, synched up with Oracle and various other technologies. I didn't stick around to see its full implementation, but half-way thru it the progress was quite astounding.
Sometimes one has to take matters into their own hands. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by KingRichard on Wednesday, February 19 @ 21:31:46 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com | Well, its all depend on the concurrent user. You could have >50000 or 100000 employee but how many of them hit the site at the same time? Cause even the best Linux server running Intel can't handle more then 200 user concurrently. Maybe SUN solaris can handle more. But again Clustering might be another solution. Or maybe they will require a LoadBalancing hardware.
If you talking about transaction mods which required roll back etc. Then you should replace MySQL with Oracle for instance. This way you will surely add more power to *nuke. Not sure how it can be implemented on PHP Nuke. But I believe Post Nuke could run with Oracle, since they used ADODB that support Oracle DB.
I believe if you have problem with *Nuke then you need to consider from the hardware point of view, which sometime overlook by the management.
P.S. Check out Source Forge for an example. I believe they should have more concurrent user than any companies intranet. But its still run quite strongly and fast. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 21:46:19 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | The point you serve us in terms of clustering a great example is Google. They are the biggest search engine available publicly indexing millions of sites. |
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Re: PHP-Nuke and Xaraya by Gregory Remington (Score: 1)
by KnowBody on Wednesday, February 19 @ 23:30:55 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) | >Well, its all depend on the concurrent user. You could have >50000 or 100000 employee but how many of them hit the site at the same time? Cause even the best Linux server running Intel can't handle more then 200 user concurrently. Maybe SUN solaris can handle more. But again Clustering might be another solution. Or maybe they will require a LoadBalancing hardware.
Yep,
that's exactly the point. And scaling a *.nuke system is not that easy. Clustering a *.nuke WITHOUT heavily modifying the system is not possible. And then you enter the maintenance hell. I'd already did some investigations in that direction. I'm not sure about Xaraya (TBD).
> But I believe Post Nuke could run with Oracle, since they used ADODB that support Oracle DB.
Theoritically you can. The core looks okay. But i've seen a lot statements in 3rd party mods that won't run on Oracle and some won't run MSSQL. There are no installation scripts for other DBs than MySQL provided. And then, ADODB is only used to connect to the database. Fullstop. Every sql statements i've ever seen in the *.nuke ignore the intention of using ADODB (me too, hehe). So, why do we need than a full blown ADODB if it's not used???
>I believe if you have problem with *Nuke then you need to consider from the hardware point of view, which sometime overlook by the management.
No. It's not that simple. It's an architectural issue that can not only be solved by buying better hardware. I believe it IS possible to build even larger site, but only with high efforts (and costs) and then i'm starting to think about a commercial alternatives. I guess, you as an IT director would do the same.
> Check out Source Forge for an example. I believe they should have more concurrent
> user than any companies intranet. But its still run quite strongly and fast.
Could be true, could be false. I don't know. I believe from the 50000 projects only 10% are active. But who cares ;-) It's NOT a *.nuke. Yahoo! has more CCU as far as i know.
So, it's time to go back to work. Must prepare the pnESP release.
Bye,
Andreas
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 2, Informative)
by KingRichard on Wednesday, February 19 @ 06:31:33 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com | Since my name is being mention on this thread. Then I have to say a words.
First of all whoever wrote this article dont know what he or she talking about. Furthermore it sound that PHP Nuke is actually better then PostNuke.
Well, I can only say one thing "Try both and then compare" Being one of the most active developer in earlier stage of PHP Nuke development have giving me an opportunities to understand PHP Nuke more than other may know. At the time I would kill anyone who said bad thing about PHP Nuke. Myself and hotFix are the first person who port PHPBB and have it work for PHP Nuke. I even the person who convince FB to used SF as PHP Nuke early development. But time evolve, PHP Nuke no longer interest me due to FB close development method. Here is why?
Story of behind KR leave PHP Nuke
PHP Nuke is based on ThatWare (please do check it out) this is a facts. Its started after PHPSlash and ThatWare fail to fullfill our need. FB with his quick action create a small communities which soon become very popular especially after being supported by MandrakeSoft. However due to FB close development several good developer leave the dev. Mainly because its too difficult to enlighten close development. Furthermore non-modular concept will always bring developer to change the core. This way backward compatibily can't be accomplish. But there are one time that I actually believe that FB open up and move its development into SF. But that doesnt last for long. :(
With that event occurs, I left PHP Nuke development and join the PostNuke team. And from that point on, I can feel the power of a truly Open Source community. PN team have teach me many wonderfull thing that I will never learn with a close development. Further more it teach me how to work as a TEAM. Since PostNuke force us to used CVS, I will get a daily snapshot from CORE TEAM. So I can keep developing and release my mods at the same time PostNuke CORE come out. Now since PostNuke are so modular I dont even have to worried about modules backward compatibility. As long as I follow the Post Nuke Guide.
PostNuke evolve so fast that even on its .x stage, it keep amaze me. Now running .723 PostNuke is a totally rebuild and one can say when PN version 1.0 complete it can compete with the rest of the commercial apps. Just some idea why I can make this judgement is because I'm an IT Director and also an Ex IT Consultant (Arthur Andersen), so yes, I have seen BroadVision, iPlanet (SUN) and etc, etc. BCG (Boston Consulting Group) once invite me to participate on Open Source polling because my name was listed in PostNuke credit. Why PostNuke one ask? Because even on its current BETA stage, one can say that its satified many Webdeveloper. One announce their portal in OPRAH show with thousand hits without any problem, you can read the article here [news.postnuke.com]
Advantage running PostNuke:
1. Its modular structure
2. Very Secure indeed
3. ACL system
4. A team of professional
5. Ability to run MultiSites
6. CVS availability
7. Documented in detail
8. Functionality
9. ADODB implementation make it easier to be ported another DB.
10. Installer which make Newbies life easier
11. PNInstall also make installing module very easy. Initialize and the activated.
12. Powerfull and easy admin function
13. and much much more.
One could say that PHP Nuke have more modules. Is that true? I have not seen PHP Nuke modules that did not available in PostNuke and the PostNuke released (.8) will have application to port those modules. The new smart template make PostNuke very flexible in the future. I believe many webdeveloper hate *Nuke because they look the same, so to accomodate this request .8 will have a new dynamic template. I even reali
Read the rest of this comment... |
Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 10:12:36 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | I left a reply to the other comment you left higher up, but for this reply I wanted to quote this:
"Well, I can brag so much but for all of you out there please try both and compare."
I have tried PN .703 last year prior to launching Computer Cops [computercops.biz] and could not get PN to function properly. I searched and asked for guidance at PN but never got anywhere. The application itself looks like a winner and also has great potential like Xaraya. I also believe that PHP-Nuke still continues to have great potential.
Hence at that time my experience with PN turned out to be a futile one and I quickly got absorbed into PHP-Nuke.
But that is the greatest benefits of open source projects: diversity.
Today there seems to be content management systems popping up everywhere, and each one fits the needs of a certain demographic.
I've known folks who were able to install PN easily and had trouble with PHP-Nuke. So certainly that means something. And of course, I've known folks (including myself) who could easily install PHP-Nuke but not PN. Looks relative, doesn't it?
But what interests me about the security aspect is the anonymous poster who talks about PostNuke and LostNuke higher up -- and the lack thereof.
I have to admit that ever since I jumped into PHP-Nuke early last year I have been releasing security patches for it that Francisco Burzi has integrated into the core product.
This new security code check that helps prevent bots from creating new accounts and also can stave off the admin password cracker [nukecops.com] is a great idea. FB private messaged me about this subject picking my brain on how to get it to work and integrated. I gave a few ideas but ultimately from the collaboration and information on the Net FB came up with the final solution.
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 15:24:09 CET | | What has become of the often-times devisive Harry? We never hear from (or about) him. Is he still leading the anarchists that caused John to leave? |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, February 19 @ 17:22:20 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) | it's not as secure as u think buddy. Even though it uses SSL certificates for normal logins (crap idea btw for those people like me who run their own servers) I can hack into any PN site in half the time I can a PHP-Nuke site.
It's got more holes in it than a fishing net
ArtificialIntel |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by KingRichard on Wednesday, February 19 @ 21:07:36 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com | Yeah tell to many people who got their website hack up and down. ;)
Dont believe me? You need a editorial from a magazine? |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 21:49:05 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | The web site defacement extends beyond the Nuke CMS as Microsoft has gotten robbed of their security many times. NASA has even been broken into so this cannot be limited to just PHP-Nuke, or Nuke in general. The problem is global reaching. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 15:24:52 CET | What has become of the often-times devisive Harry? We never hear from (or about) him. Is he still leading the anarchists that caused John to leave?
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 22:00:55 CET | | Why do you care? Seems PN is coming along just fine even without the flames or insults you send! Please just go and do your own thing...chose the FREE tool you want to use and get over it! |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 23:12:50 CET | | Bah....if Harry & zoom hadn't started the flame wars, PostNuke would be going to beta (meaning .9) next month, and Xaraya wouldn't exist. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 16:16:33 CET | | yea, some don't mind the other team leaving since they were a click of people. And if you look at Xaraya it is a bit difficult to understand the usability sucks and most of it doesn't work...so I'm glad we have a choice but I won't be changing over any of my sites. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 05:47:59 CET | | Xaraya isn't even TRYING to be at a useable point to non-devs at the moment. With-hold decision on that for when it's released. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 2, Insighful)
by fbc on Wednesday, February 19 @ 16:09:18 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) | Hi all: Here we goes with this looong story, too long if you ask me.
Many of you know what happened between PN and PHP-Nuke... I mean, what did the PN people to me and my project when they started. The war of flames was pretty big and annoying. Since that I just decided to stay away from this kind of stuff and don't talk about competition, do what you want and don't bother me, that was my reaction and was very positive in the long term.
Knowing my position on this kind of discussions I wanted to say something about this discussion, mainly because a request of Paul, who thinks that many of you can have interest to know what I think.
So... I'll give you some story which will open your eyes on what happened in the past.
KR said that I opened the SourceForge account thanks to him... False. SourceForge account for PHP-Nuke exists since the very first version of PHP-Nuke, which can be seen and downloaded from there.
About saying that OOP (Object Oriented Programming) is a good stuff and makes stuff more stable, modular, or whatever else you want... False. OOP is good for very big project, which is not the case of PHP-Nuke (I mean VERY BIG projects) with a lot of reusable code. BUT... any good PHP programmer knows that the use (or worse, the intense use) of objects/classes in a PHP script isn't good. PHP is not efficient managing objects/classes. At least it's less efficient than managing custom user created functions. Any decent PHP 4 book will say this to you: If you can manage to have your software working without using OOP, there isn't any reason to use objects, because of performance issues.
About security... Many people can think that I don't care about security... I care, a lot. But what I don't do is to publish "exploits" in my site about my software... PLEASE!!! And NO... I'll never change my mind about this, I'll never publish an exploit, I'll publish a fix but I'll not contribute to those f***ing script kiddies out there.
Paul is the perfect proof of the above affirmation, he's a direct witness of my interest on this matter... is secret yes, but there is interest.
At this point, PHP-Nuke 6.5 is maybe the most secure script out there, was insecure in the past? yes... but now, a few version after there was a lot of work on security.
Another issue... The installation... PHP-Nuke is a 1-2-3 to install. Doesn't have an install script (and maybe there will never be one) but it's easy. Many of can say how many minutes took to install PHP-Nuke 6.0... config.php edit and run the program from your browser... Voila! Magic! all is created in the background... On PHP-Nuke 6.5 this method isn't implemented yet since I changed the SQL layer, but I'm thinking in a nice method to do this auto-install in the 6.5 version, same goes for the upgrade process in future version. Just run the program and it's done, anyway this will cost one more query... but it's worst the effort.
CVS... don't needed. End of story.
Development team... same as CVS. While I appreciate a lot those people that helps me out with any version, fixing bugs, translating files, catching security issues, making suggestions, etc... I think that a complete development team will convert PHP-Nuke in a total mess. I know this code as my own hand, nobody can offer me anything like this. Working in team is nice for some projects... large projects, the Linux Kernel, to mention one, which will be a madness for one only people. So, I'll always accept help from anyone, from time to time, some people appears and make a big and nice contribution... like the folks at NukeCops (this site FYI :P) and Tom who ported the phpBB 2 forums... We managed to work together with excelent results, but this doesn't mean that will be a dev team in the future.
Documentation... there are many manuals out there... nice ones... but I need to admit that this point is maybe the most ugly thing about PHP-Nuke at this time... th
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 16:18:10 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | As I've thanked others for contributing, I thank you too Francisco for coming here and posting your thoughts on this subject.
And yes, I can vouch on the security aspect as you and I have had private discussions on this matter.
The commentaries in this article here really amaze me. They are all maturely and intellectually based thereby making this subject matter quite an enjoyable one to read.
To now only learn this history but also for the future of the various projects. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, February 19 @ 17:29:46 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) | hey.... no documentation huh? I wrote an entire module of documentation which is still being written slowly adding more details here and there :P:P:P:P:P
ArtificialIntel |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by KingRichard on Wednesday, February 19 @ 21:06:33 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com | Ehhmmm Sorry FB where is the PHP Nuke SF today? Are they still out there?
Yeah only version 6.0
I rest my case.... |
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Re:Old Information (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 19 @ 22:49:05 CET |
After a discussion with Lawrence, it appears that he based his comments on PostNuke about *very* old information (heck, this article is old) during the 0.6 / 0.7 days.
Some of his frustration is real (which is why we had a development team split) some of if seems over-blown. Nevertheless, under the current version and conditions, none of this holds true anymore.
On the other hand, much of the frustration still holds true about php-nuke - nice talk, but still frustrating to use (or to develop for). Par for the course, I guess, particularly reading Burzi's 'response'.
All I can say, is to invite people to check out PostNuke, and to experience what a well-developed CMS can do.
http://www.PostNuke.com
Harry
Project Manager - PostNuke Project |
Re:Old Information (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 23:09:05 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | Thanks for your participation Harry. I think the commentary in this article has very much outgrown the article itself. It has shown itself to be, perhaps for the very first time, that the developers for each of the major open source CMS projects can gather together and discuss issues that actually make it enjoyable for others to read and particpate in.
I cannot speak about the development aspects for any open source CMS beyond PHP-Nuke (although I have done some coding for plain forums like YaBB SE). So my next comment is focused on PHP-Nuke:
The time spent in coding for PHP-Nuke for me has been quite an enjoyable one. Ever since I started with Computer Cops [computercops.biz] and now teamed up with some fine Nukers here at Nuke Cops I have made many friends and learned a lot about PHP and PHP-Nuke in the process.
For instance I have collaborated with Tom Nitzschner on the phpbb2 forums port for phpnuke, and also have communicated with Francisco Burzi about the PHP-Nuke core. I don't know about how development used to be prior to summer or so of last year, but today I feel very much a presence of team spirit. At times Bob Marion and I have also communited about PHP-Nuke.
I have a very open mind and like diversity. Each CMS has its own special target audience. That is what makes each project so special and distinctive.
I don't think its a question of security anymore (referencing one of my comments about this above in response to KingRichard), but a matter of team work.
If the folks at PostNuke work as a team together and with their customers, then that is great. I can say on my part, that we at Nuke Cops have been working on fixes and security patches, not to mention new modules and tools that Francisco has been incorporating.
One of the earliest inccorporations was a simple XSS filter that FB made available from my release I believe in PHPNuke 6.0.
I must say thought that this article and its participants have proven that no matter what the history might have been, we are after all mature intellectual adults that can get along while discussing various differences and anomalies in the various Nuke ports, not to mention other CMSs. |
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Re:Old Information (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Wednesday, February 19 @ 23:09:41 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | I forgot, if you have contacted Lawrence why don't you ask him to drop in and leave his updated current comments? |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Thursday, February 20 @ 11:18:29 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | Good old nessus. The link you gave only scans the IP you are coming from, so I'll have to re-run nessus myself |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 11:40:27 CET | Interesting how? It says nothing about the criteria, what release, how it was tested, what their qualifications were, etc. I'm not defending the product per se. I could care less about all of your and their rantings about who prefers what and why. It's a bunch of cry baby stuff the way you, especially, carry on, and continue to perpetuate a past personality and ego clash.
For instance, if PN is so security superior, why did Postnuke have to issue so many security releases/patches between 10/1/2002 and 1/20/2003? And look at all the problems that this 'superior' development team caused with those releases. Don't blame me - just read the messages on the PN site.
My point is that it's great to be passionate and really evangelize 'your' product. But just speak to your product strengths and don't demean others. It's really very childish and immature. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Thursday, February 20 @ 22:49:01 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | KingRichard what isn't what SecuritySpace advertises, but checking the Source at the cve.mitre.org:
http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=phpnuke
All the PHPNuke issues are prior to 6.0. There is nothing listed in the CVE database on PHPNuke 6.0 or higher. So like the article itself, all the CVEs point to old PHP-Nuke versions. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 11:42:30 CET | KR - concerning Security Space:
Interesting how? It says nothing about the criteria, what release, how it was tested, what their qualifications were, etc. I'm not defending the product per se. I could care less about all of your and their rantings about who prefers what and why. It's a bunch of cry baby stuff the way you, especially, carry on, and continue to perpetuate a past personality and ego clash.
For instance, if PN is so security superior, why did Postnuke have to issue so many security releases/patches between 10/1/2002 and 1/20/2003? And look at all the problems that this 'superior' development team caused with those releases. Don't blame me - just read the messages on the PN site.
My point is that it's great to be passionate and really evangelize 'your' product. But just speak to your product strengths and don't demean others. It's really very childish and immature. |
Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by KingRichard on Thursday, February 20 @ 22:17:36 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com | Childish? Well, I'm showing you the facts with prove from someone who did not run PHP Nuke nor PostNuke. If read correctly why PHP Nuke gain that category is because
"Given the insecurity history of this package, the Nessus
team recommands that you do not use it but
use something else instead, as security was clearly
not in the mind of the persons who wrote it."
As PostNuke coming out with patches meaning that the team are keep trying their best to mend out any hole that discover by the users. Is that what we all want? We never trying to cover our weakness, however we keep on improving.
Superior? did I ever mention Post Nuke is more superior? I just say "Tested them and compare" You'll see the different based on the usages, user friendliness, and off course speeds. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 22:32:29 CET | You still fail to see/answer the questions the other poster raised. When did they do that review? What version are they referring to? What is the basis of their assessment? What gives Nessus the right/authority to say what they do and who really cares? I don't - unless/until I see the basis of their assessment. They might well have said the same thing about PN before the flurry of patches. Timing is everything.
Postnuke comes out with patches - so does phpNuke. Your arguments are strawman arguments. They are two different, yet alike, applications. They both have flaws, security and otherwise. FB is no more/less arrogant than HZ. They both need to tame their egos.
You are the one who stated the Nessus item was 'interesting'. To me, that's about as valid as saying the original post referring to the old PN version is 'interesting'. They are both old and outdated. Much as your rehashing your ought with FB is - old and outdated. Let it go. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Thursday, February 20 @ 22:55:40 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | The one thing I like to think here is we speak with our own experiences and facts. Sure tempers and emotions can easily get flustered because each of us have vested interests in any of these CMS products.
I don't think anyone's intelligence is on the line here, rather its a global participation and understand of this whole entire "thing".
And as I said before, it continues to remain an enjoyment in reading these comments. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 21:09:47 CET | | Very well put. Thank you! |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 20 @ 22:33:37 CET | You still fail to see/answer the questions the other poster raised. When did they do that review? What version are they referring to? What is the basis of their assessment? What gives Nessus the right/authority to say what they do and who really cares? I don't - unless/until I see the basis of their assessment. They might well have said the same thing about PN before the flurry of patches. Timing is everything.
Postnuke comes out with patches - so does phpNuke. Your arguments are strawman arguments. They are two different, yet alike, applications. They both have flaws, security and otherwise. FB is no more/less arrogant than HZ. They both need to tame their egos.
You are the one who stated the Nessus item was 'interesting'. To me, that's about as valid as saying the original post referring to the old PN version is 'interesting'. They are both old and outdated. Much as your rehashing your ought with FB is - old and outdated. Let it go. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 02:56:02 CET | | UUh a flame war beetween pn and php -nuke. This will end in many hits for this website. |
Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 06:55:55 CET | | Quality entertainment for the masses! |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Friday, February 21 @ 10:43:30 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | Flame war? Not even close I don't think. But that's my opinion. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 07:49:36 CET | | What is 'interesting' about the Nessus item is that it is so vague as to be useless. You could say the same thing about Windows. Do they? Windows is provenly and documented much more vulnerable than phpNuke or PN. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 10:55:59 CET | For those of you that care to see Queen Richard's true colors, see his comments here:
http://news.postnuke.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2363
He is not capable of a civil discussion. At nukecops he is just trying to hide his true self, although not too well even then! As previous posts have alluded to, it is personal crap with FB and Queen Richard. It's got nothing to do with the actual product comparisons. |
Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by chatserv on Friday, February 21 @ 15:39:52 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://nukeresources.com | "Posted by: KingRichard on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 11:55 AM
Article called "Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner"
Could you guys help me burn this lame article. it is really pissing me off at the moment. "
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, February 21 @ 13:52:27 CET | postnuke is a breeze to setup and to customize. The information is easily accessible...
This article is nothing but agenda laden misleading hooey.
Give me postnuke anyday over FB's carelessness and lack of attention to basic issues such as security
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by chatserv on Friday, February 21 @ 15:36:31 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://nukeresources.com | | Much like people try to knock off PHP-Nuke with false security reports like the one posted in our front page, as mentioned in the article's note, we have tested this and all proposed hacks failed miserably. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Friday, February 21 @ 21:44:49 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) | Just to clear something up for all you PostNuke users out there - You should really pay more attention to PHP-Nuke.
Security is tighter in the latest release of PHP-Nuke than PostNuke has ever been, incorporating features that most of you postnuke writers will probably steal and use for your own clones.
Also, I have a fair few associates who are still hackers, and they can crack into any postNuke site in 20 seconds flat - I've timed them - and they've had full - note FULL access to the administration section when they have. The fastest I've seen them hack the least secure PHP-Nuke over the past year is 30 seconds approx. (32 seconds to be precise). That doesn't sound like PHP-Nuke is less secure to me.
The latest version of PHP-Nuke (6.5) prior to it's RC1 with the new security procedures in it, it took them 5 minutes to hack into it.
Please. No more comments like "PHP-Nuke is not secure". Just because PostNuke enforces the use of SSL (not as secure as u think folks), doesn't make it more secure than PHP-Nuke
Also, I might like to point out that there's a security procedure I'm wokring on that's more secure than FB's graphic security, PostNuke's SSL and the Anti-Bot re-write rules put together that I'm working on @ the moment - which will involve encryption right from hte client's web page on the client's PC - something that SSL doesn't do on the initial Login stage.
Artificialintel |
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PostNuke split again? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, February 23 @ 23:46:52 CET | | Could be brewing. Take a look at http://news.postnuke.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2368 |
Re: PostNuke split again? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, February 24 @ 06:39:26 CET | | Hayy Z. has withdrawn the article pending 'clarification'. Hmmmmm. |
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Re: PostNuke split again? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, February 24 @ 17:17:39 CET | | No, but it was pretty blunt about the fact that Harry was not performing the job as expected and he needed to be replaced. He's been on some kind of leave an just returned. This came from the PN board, not an anonymous posting. |
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Re: PostNuke split again? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, February 24 @ 17:22:52 CET | This is NOT the article, but it starts to show the fact that there's something MAJOR on the horizon:
http://forums.postnuke.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7843 |
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PostNuke Lost Article (Score: 1, Informative)
by Anonymous on Monday, February 24 @ 17:33:18 CET | Here is a link and the article:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.postnuke.devel/8303
Open Letter to the PostNuke community
Subject: Open Letter to the PostNuke community
From: Simon Wunderlin wunderlin.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:19:18 +0100
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.web.postnuke.devel
Reply-to: pndev postnuke.com
Open Letter to the PostNuke community
As you all know PostNuke is based on the idea of community, its
developed utilizing open source methods and of course a free software
product, released under the GNU/GPL 2 license.
PostNuke has been born out of the need to free the code, allow it to
evolve and become all of what we collectively dream and wish for this
marvelous endeavor to be.
This goal has not been easy, since its very beginning; PostNuke has been
the cause of controversy and the greatest of passions.
Passions so powerful, that both attracts and rejects the many, one
constant prevails, the code and its service to the world.
Unfortunately as any other human endeavor, it has from time to time
flaws, or disagreements, when this happens we can opt for one of 3
choices, you can continue on, and fight every step of the way, you can
agree to disagree, or you can go separate ways.
Irreconcilable differences create the grounds for divorce and parting of
friends, or of any collective effort.
Sadly these cross roads are here with us again.
After months of hard work, dedication and devotion to this project, our
efforts have been once again compromised.
As a result the PostNuke development team held an extraordinary meeting,
in order to evaluate the prevailing conditions that deeply affect the
future of PostNuke.
The result of a unanimous consensus is released for your perusal,
analysis and forming of your personal opinion which we value the most.
The PostNuke development team considers that in order to successfully
achieve the community and development goals a strong leader and a clear
road map is required.
The road map and current goals have been clearly defined in past
articles (The Future: where is PN going? and An overview of the Phoenix
template rendering engine), so no need to dwell in that here at this time.
Unfortunately, the current Project Leader has never fulfilled the
responsibilities he was bestowed by the former project leader, sadly he
is now after months of absolute absence, promoting a radical step back
in development, which would for ever change the way the project evolves,
and this without ever even consulting with his *own development team*.
In light of these facts we have arrived to the following conclusions
which we submit to the community.
As any reputed sociologist would claim, "He who forgets history, is
bound to repeat it", this times call for a serious reflection on the
events past, present and future of the project, the code must be free
and be allowed to grow and evolve without any restriction, we work based
on the premise layout by the GPL which guarantees us the right to learn,
brake a part and modify freely the code in order to satisfy our needs of
knowledge or any others, without any limits or boundaries, this rights
extend to us all and are the corner stone of free software.
In order to make this possible the source must be allowed to be shared,
and taken into paths that are natural to its developers, without any
restriction or limit imposed in the process, with projects as PostNuke
that benefit from a global reach, community input is also vital for this
to succeed.
A project, like the one we are w
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lostnuke? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 26 @ 20:49:53 CET | | Read about the other PN! http://www.lostnuke.com |
NOOB (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 27 @ 00:47:10 CET | | Yes, I am a noob, laugh all you want. Anyhow I'm planning on putting up an anime site, where you can have review sections and top 15 sections and such. Anyhow I was wondering if anyone could tell me which I should use. PhpNuke, Postnuke or Xaraya. Now here's the important thing to me. I need a script that will allow me to add my own pages, such as reviews, and these pages I add have to be under admin control as well. For example if a user changes the layout, it changes the layout not only in the things that came with the script but the new pages I added as well. Thanks |
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Re: NOOB (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Thursday, February 27 @ 01:26:42 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | I suggest doing what we all have done, take the plunge with each and you'll quickly see what works for you. |
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Re: NOOB (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, February 27 @ 16:47:55 CET | | you think ur a noob, i dont even know how to get it started plz help. i dont know where to download PHP-Nuke |
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Re: NOOB, **install** (Score: 1)
by wesr on Monday, March 10 @ 09:21:19 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.lugot.org | I'm a noob 2, however every site I go to impresses me with the layout and potential it offers. So I installed or tried I might say. Tried XOOPS, tried postnuke and now I'm on PHPnuke.
With each of them I get a blank page.
Running RH 8.0
mysql-3.23.52-3
php-4.2.2-8.0.5
httpd-2.0.40-8
Installed w/ defualt settings from CD install done on Saturday.
Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks
wes
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Re: NOOB, **install** (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Monday, March 10 @ 11:36:28 CET
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | Hi wes, please install our analyzer program and in the forums [www.nukecops.com] start a new thread asking for help with a link to the analyzer. It'll help us diagnose your issues. |
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Lawrence_Krubner on Wednesday, June 11 @ 23:05:29 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | It's been something like a year since I posted my remarks, and the perspective of a year puts the situation with the Nukes in a different light.
First of all, let me note the irony of my remarks getting this much attention so many months after they were made. I just went and told Peter Agelasto about the discussion on this page. Both of us had about the same reaction: if we'd gotten this much of a response to our complaints a year ago, we would not have been inspiried to run off and try to build our own CMS. Peter ended up putting up some financial support so some of us (me, Costin Breveaneua, now Matt Clark) could work on a new CMS. Our efforts might have been better spent investing our time in PostNuke, if only we'd been able to find a way "in" to PostNuke. Matt Clark and myself had both tried the Nukes on various sites and found them too hard to customize.
Harry tells me that most of the issues I complained of have now been resolved. I've no reason to doubt him and PostNuke sounded like, in theory, it was eventually going to have a good architecture.
I think many good things can be said about the Nukes. However, that doesn't change what my actual experience was: spending some time, everyday, on various forums, asking questions, and not getting any useable information. Some of my questions never drew a response, others got the response "What version are you using?" and then I would say 7.03, and they would say "Oh, I've never used that version." I think at one point I got a response from someone fairly high up, perhaps it was Harry, but his response was "Upgrade to the newest version" and I'd already invested a month trying to customize the version I had.
I also tried to simply walk through the code, starting at the index page, and imagining how a page loaded, and I tried to follow the process outwards. I thought if I could simply follow how a page loaded, then I could figure out everything else I needed. Two things limited my efforts: there were not enough comments for me to figure things out, and one had to learn ADO, which seemed like a huge investment of my time to make for a product I wasn't yet sure I was going to use.
I'll give you an example of how the comments were lacking: the first page that was included() after the index page held only one function, and there was a comment like "I still don't understand why this has to go here." That was all. There was no mention of why it was an issue, what were the engineering issues on both sides. Only one more sentence would have been needed to make that comment useful, something like "I think we should load the main functions here but King Richard feels strongly that that would introduce security problems." Just one more sentence would have allowed me to gain some understanding of the code. However, in that case, there was at least a comment. For large stretches of the code there were no comments at all.
Trying to do my own CMS has made me sympathetic to some of the things I was not sympathetic about before. The PostNuke crowd describes Burzi's development style as closed, but having put so much work into a CMS of my own, I find that I too would like to keep control over the core architecture, and only open up non-core code.
I got at least one good idea from looking at PostNuke code: someone, maybe Richard, used to leave comments with dates and initials. I liked that. In our code, we write lots of comments, and date and initial them all.
To a large extent, I'm glad I did not get this kind of response this year. Developing a cms has been fun. There is an element of self-expression in a major software project. Programming does not allow one as much room for expression as art, but there is something in it. Getting together with friends to do a CMS is like getting friends together to do a rock band. Every CMS is a bit different, each has its own flavor. Doing one's own means being able to shape it just the way you want. As an example, in our CMS w
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Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Lawrence_Krubner on Wednesday, June 11 @ 20:52:25 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I guess this conversation is already over, but I'm only stumbling on it now, months later.
I think my original post was misunderstood. PHP-Nuke and PostNuke are both a breeze to set up. The first time I set up PostNuke I was amazed how easy it was. Also, both Nukes have an impressive array of modules that can be plugged in. The range of options that confront you as an Adminstrator is really wonderful.
However, none of that changes the points I made in my first article: the transition from .6 to .7 was rough. I was trying to customize the output of my installation, which was nearly impossible since no one had any idea how output worked for the version I was using. I tried to learn the whole code myself, but there were not enough comments or guides.
I understand many improvements have been made to both pieces of software during the last year, and I wish them both the best of luck. |
Re: Editorial History on PHP-Nuke and Post-Nuke by Lawrence Krubner (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Friday, September 19 @ 11:00:05 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | Hello and welcome Lawrence, sorry for such the late reply. I'm glad you could make it over and add your more recent thoughts on the subject matter. Also am glad it sparked such a wonderful discussion. |
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