A gripe about the community

Nuke Cadet Joined: Apr 22, 2003 Posts: 7

It seems that whenever anyone makes a contributuin that there is very little in the way of feedback or even a simple thank you. Those of us that work hard to let you fellow nukers have new blocks, themes and modules that are usually well tested and help optimize or enhance your sites would really appreciate a little feedback, if you grab a file from our sites at least either vote or else send a quick note. I've only had my radio block downloaded 70 times or so and it makes me feel unappreciated that no one said thanks or voted for it, how do you think the people with 500+ downloads feel? If you want free stuff at least have the decency to be thankful a little bit.

Bleh.

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 6:12 pm

How about these numbers:

Added on: Sep-23-2002 Downloads: 11440 Rating: 9.8 (10 Votes)

Added on: Jan-26-2003 Downloads: 8633 Rating: 1.0 (1 Vote)

It's something one has to get used to, if i were to depend on votes to continue providing fixes & solutions i'd had quit long ago, knowing that at least someone could benefit from something i released is good enough for me, if the file was downloaded no matter how many times it means someone was interested enough in it to go on and download it, look at it that way and you'll feel much better.

General Joined: Mar 22, 2003 Posts: 5233 Location: USA

You'd be surprised though. You do get the thanks in many ways. Occasionally you get a 'You're the man' type post. You get PM's and private emails. You find your site recommended on other sites. It takes time to build up a reputation. You will never get rich or famous with Open Source but you really do get satisfaction knowing you're giving, rather than receiving and I don't mean to sound corny here. You really have to be in it for what you can contribute, not what you can get. Otherwise get out now! Wink

Nuke Cadet Joined: Apr 22, 2003 Posts: 7

I don't really care about fame or riches I'd just like to see a bit more in the realm of nuke users actually shwoing thanks. Even releasing the blocks I've made for download was something I thought about a lot just because of noticing the way people rarely do anything to show gratitude, I do appreciate the fact that it's downloaded at all but feedback of any sort would be handy. Glad at least a couple people responded to this post though Smile

Nuke Soldier Joined: May 06, 2003 Posts: 28

Hey guys,

This is an great topic and addresses a few issues that I have seen happening community wise. Firstly, let me extend a thanks directly to you Philovirus and to all those in the Nuke community. Your dedication and hard-coding work is very much appreciated in at least my eyes. Smile

Whenever someone extends a giving hand it should always be noted and respected.

I'm relatively new, no wait... I am new to the Nuke community, but not so much to PHP. When I first observed this creation and understood it as a CMS. I was a little awestruck with it's features and that it is free and all.. doh! Well, being the good lil follower that I am. I downloaded it immediately and after reading the requirements for installation. I then proceeded with the installation.

Basically, the installation went well. I got it all correct on the first try with the "stock" instructions. I felt like I had just won the lottery and was so enthusiastic about it that I began to consume everything I could learn about it. The journey so far has been both up and down, but always exciting. Fortunately for me I have much free time to dedicate to testing new modules, blocks themes, etc.

Unfortunately for most of the population of new'nukers this is not the case. It's also unfortunate, that while there is many giving and talented active participants like yourself. There doesn't appear to be any standardized organization for documentation or testing. i.e., I would suggest you randomly choose 4 addon/scripts downloads. Read each of there instructions and I'm sure you will see my point. As all will be more then likely different then the other.

Then, I would challenge you to try to do the installation "AS INSTRUCTED". Not based on your experience or knowledge as a coder. Do it just like the instructions say in the readme. My numbers go something like this.. 5 out of 10 worked without any error. 2 of those 5 I got support for and were fixed. 3 out of those 5 ruined or caused major problems with my current installation. Hence causing me to revert to a saved or backup file directory of the site and or database.

Considering myself mediocre at best when it comes to the PHP language. The fact that I know it a little has been helpful in some cases. Knowing that not every variable cannot be foreseen or tested for. I feel at some point and time that it would be better to regulate submissions for testing and documentation be "proofed" before modules/addons/scripts be allowed for general download to the community.

I know to many I may seem to be critical here, but thats not the intent. Also, I am a believer that if I am going to comment on something. I had better be ready to offer more then just criticism. I am offering my help as both a testing grounds and also whatever other capacity may be helpful.

"What good is the fruit, when the ladder to pick it is broke"

Thanks

Lieutenant Joined: Apr 07, 2003 Posts: 278 Location: USA

I'm still pretty much a PHP-Nuke newbie too, but my first thoughts are that there are three ways to encourage standardized documentation.

- Require all blocks, hacks, mods, and add-ons to be reviewed and approved by a central organization before general release.

The problem with this is that there is no way to guarantee everyone will submit their PHP-Nuke enhancements for approval, plus I really don't foresee anybody willing to undertake a task like this for free. If it existed, would it be a service a large number of 'Nukers are willing to pay for?

- Refuse to add any of the above to your site downloads unless their scripters provided some kind of standard documentation.

That still won't correct the problem, but each site or network of sites, over time, would establish a high level of trust and good reputation for their downloadable files.

- Somebody create a website and take on the huge task of properly documenting enhancements.

This has possibilities for a good support site and a nice little side business if somebody wanted (for example) to write up documentation for existing enhancements, and also offer a documentation service talented coders who are maybe less skilled with documenting their work. It could also be expanded to include translation services and other support. (Wikki?)

But honestly, even one of these ideas wouldn't assure good documentation procedures. People who didn't want to go through a procedure of getting a seal of approval on their enhancements could still offer them for download "as is" on their own, or other sites.

Just my ramblin' two-cents worth.

Nuke Soldier Joined: May 06, 2003 Posts: 28

Yes, I am willing to dedicate some time to documentation organization and even possibly translation German\Spanish\English. I have written professional documentation before and actually find it enjoyable as well. I'm interested in this prospect, but not for profit.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:50 am

I can see both sides of the story here. Philo, I sympathize and I agree, knowing feedback REALLY helps knowing if your doing something right or wrong. However, Chatserv summed it up pretty good. Many people are lazy, but you just got to trudge on if you feel like helping others.

Sure it would be great if someone said thanks, or BTW, can you make one that does this or that? You usually only hear back when something is wrong.

Im used to seeing people gripe, B*tch and moan, but very, very rarely say thanks, or good job.

So you just got to deal with it, but again, it would be nice to hear the occasional thanks at LEAST or a vote when it's downloaded. Thats about all I would want at a minimum.

Good luck, and THANKS as well as THANKS to ALL Nuke developers and contributors.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 11:28 pm

I've been meaning for a few days now to give out a general "Wow, Thanks!" to the nuke community in general, and this forum in particular.

I'll admit I've been lax about giving feedback and voting on downloads. Most of that is due to impatience - not just my own, but my wife's, who says "that looks cool! do it now!". And me being mediocre-at-best with php means that there are install issues that I just can't find a way around, meaning the "woah that's cool" module or block I've downloaded wont' work for me. If I can't get it going within an hour, I tend to give up on it. The point about non-standardized install instrictions is a good one - some of the add-ons integrate flawlessly while following very clear and concise instructions. Others do not - "change the variables and upload the files" may be enough for advanced users, but it's not always clear what variables need changing, nor what directories they go in Wink

So while I may download dozens of modules and blocks, perhaps 10% actually get used - either because of install problems or because they don't really have a place on the site. What I should do is keep track of the add-ons that failed and track down their source to leave feedback - good or bad.

That having been said, I will personally try to be more diligent in the future about such things, and i would like to re-iterate my good impressions of the nuke community as a whole. Any issues I've had regarding the install of the core files and setting up the database, and integrating our previous phpbbs were quickly cleared up by searching the forum here. The help, from what I've seen, has been friendly (usually) and timely. Indeed, it's far more helpful than the support you get for most software you've paid for Wink

Congrats to you all, and thank you again! Mr. Green

Elite Nuker Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 717

Quote:

What good is the fruit, when the ladder to pick it is broke

I would say:

Quote:

What good is the fruit, if there is no-one to eat it

Just do it for the fun of it and to prove to yourself that, with PHP you can do almost anything you can think of and, that you can show that!

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:13 pm

The great thing about this community is the willingness to help, even by those who are not the experts...Most of the time I get my help by reading what others have asked...I rarely ask questions myself...

But here is a HUGE thank you to all who contribute...and that is not just developers...it starts with the Newbies who asks the most mundane crazy questions, but who get answers posted...and it goes to the guys who answer them...and it grows from there!!! But we would be nowhere without you developers!

So I agree, I think the community needs to give a little more thanks Very Happy

But if this is all the thanks your gettin then I would take it and run...

So THANKS...

BD

ps- this was a great thread...I hope more come in here and give a little pat on the back, because it really is well deserved! And I will try and vote more when I think about it Smile