This is a rant that I want a general opinion on. I really need to find out the general consensus is regarding the action of two individuals. You see, we just launched a web site that sites upon a heavily modified version of PHPNuke 6.5. As the engine now sits, one can no longer just drop any old PHPNuke module into it. It also includes more flash than any other project I have worked with. So here is what happened. The two PHPNuke Gestapo e-mail my client. I have one of the e-mails it goes as follows :
Message : Just from one web guy to another i hope you didnt pay to much for this website becuase it uses the PHPNuke engine which is free for download here http://www.phpnuke.org
just a heads up for you guys
I do not have the other one, but the guys false e-mail address is jfraser333@hotmail.com
I spent 8 weeks twisting the PHPNuke engine into the final form that the client wanted. While many of the basic ideas behind PHPNuke are still intact, after suffering a hack attack on my personal site, I dove into just about every file on my client's site. Having an intimate knowledge of PHPNuke, I know where to look for security exploits. With the system becomming so popular, I'm sure others have the same knowledge. Well I plug a number of possible problem areas. I also scrubbed the code with a fine tune brush. After countless hours of development and re-development, these clowns take it upon themselves to threaten my way of living.
The following message is what I sent to them. I doubt they will ever respond.
Quote:
OK, you both decided to e-mail my client, telling them how wrong it is to use PHP-Nuke as the core engine behind their site. Well, here is something for you to wrap your heads around... take a look at the credits in the Journal System. Who do you see listed there? Trevor Scott. Me! Now go to every web site that uses PHP-Nuke from version 6.0 onward and make sure my name is listed in the credits. While you are at it, scour every line of code and look for the code that was pulled from the Journal system *I* developed and pull it out. Go ahead. How many modules will break? Plenty! I get e-mails all the time from module developers, requesting information based on code found in my releases.
For your information, the following modules were developed, or rebuilt, for the my client's web site :
Overall Module Loading was revamped (Additional session tracking was added to help us target those areas visited most. Additional security was added to protect the site engine and server from malicious hacks (I have been hacked with a base distro of the core engine). Additional variable handling was added.) Code clean-up to the general module loading system. Added quicker routines where possible, removed functionality that was not being used for this client's site. Files needed for user and admin functionality are now included within the actual module directory and not in a separate admin folder. Idea inspired by PostNuke. Module development is now easy as pie thanks to my system that uses *2* lines of code to wrap a module into the system.
Content Engine Re-Vamp : I hard coded module with a WYSIWYG editor interface because the WYSIWYG modules available were un-reliable at best. A core front-end was introduced to allow 80% of the site content to be driven from one engine, not one engine for each section. Added art manager to content engine. Removed unnecessary fields, enhanced sorting features, integrated admin features into the front-end view.
New - Multi-Use module : More than one module can be loaded into certain pages, pulling the benefit of several features into a unified page.
Theme Engine Re-Write : While I do use the DeepBlue theme as my base, the entire site, as you can tell by it's unique looks uses a heavily modified/re-developed theme engine. All site navigation uses *My* theme engine, not PHP-Nuke's.
Admin Functionality now integrated with the front-end. : Many features that were only accessible via the administration panel can now be accessed directly from the front-end by those logged in as site admins. This alone soaked up hours of time.
Visual Tour Module (New) : Movies (QuickTime, Real, MediaPlayer, Flash) may be uploaded to the site directly via *My* file manager tool and embedded into the site. Integrated with download manager so that one upload also enters a new entry into the download manager.
Photo Galley (New) : 100% MY creation. based on nothing because I could find nothing that suited the requests. Supports multi albums, direct uploads, thumbnails, and every other feature this client requested.
Calendar (New) : 100% My creation : Supports pre-event listings, post-event listings, event photogallery (based on MY Photo Gallery module), and post-event wrap ups.
User Module : Better integration with PHPbb. Uses PHPbb's profile manager vs. the Nuke manager. If you have spent any amount of time using PHPNuke, you know that there *are* two different profile managers.
Private Messages and Forum : Developed by PHPbb, credits are in FAQs. Sufficient to PHPbb's release.
So really... You think you know a PHP-Nuke site when you see it? You can't look under the hood. You have no idea how much time I spent working on this system just to get it functioning as the client requested. I hope you get hacked with all the security holes I plugged up! You think you are doing the correct thing by e-mailing my client, chirping off how PHP-Nuke is free, etc... Well how much is *Your* time worth. Out the goodness of your hearts will you spend 8 weeks re-developing and developing the core engine and additional modules just to fit the needs of someone's request? If so, I have a ton of work I can toss your way. You may not have any cash to put food on your table, but who cares? You are doing a noble thing.
I *was* going to release the fixes I found. I *was* going to release the file manager *I* developed. I *was* going to release the calendar module (with photo album support - how many people *would* have loved that?). I *was* going to release the photo gallery module. I *was* going to release the enhanced content manager. I *was* going to release the simplified module engine. I *was* going to release the art manager. And that is just a few features I integrated into *this* site. To add to the list of things I am now *not* going to release : Theme engine alternative that integrates the coppermine photo gallery and simplifies the incorporation of PHPbb. Original shoutbox redeveloped to include security features (easy to hack in current state) and integration into site theme. The atomic journal system 2.0 that would have lifted the system to the level of the LiveJournal, Blogger, etc... Asked for repeatedly time and again... Subscription based system that allows a PHP-Nuke webmaster to host enhanced accounts, PayPal integrated. An enhanced account has the option of turning off banners on their display to extended module functionality. Again, this was integrated into the core module loading routines, but you think this site is running a standard distro of PHP-Nuke. Banner system that uses Flash and standard images.
Need I go on? By your actions, you have really soured me to working with the PHPNuke community. Perhaps you should have dug a little deeper into the site, and contacted me directly. What do you think? Your actions will be felt through out this community and I may/may not tell those that ask for my code to look in your direction. If you are such soldiers of PHPNuke, then perhaps you can spend the hours upon hours developing what I have working today. All I have to do is integrate one of *My* features into any one of the several sites I run and people begin to ask for downloads.
As you may have noticed, PHPNuke 6.6 is not available to the general public. My guess is that my work would have raised PHPNuke 6.5 to the level of 6.6 and maybe even further. FB has contemplated taking PHP-Nuke commercial. Where does that leave Thatware? The system PHPNuke was based off of? Where are the credits for Thatware? How about the other spin offs of PHPNuke? Why don't you attack them? Do you actually think FB wrote every line of code? Not a chance in hell! Do you write every line of "your" code? I seriously doubt it. My time and talents are worth bank to me. I spend 8-10 hours each day developing in PHP. Can you say the same? 90% of my code is developed from the ground up. *This* client asked for a community site. Having worked with PHPNuke in the past, I decided to give it a chance on this site. For all the Rainbow Brite I have given the PHPNuke community, this is what I get back? I eat, think, and breath PHP. I have had to find my own methods of getting past some rather difficult problems.
So now I ask you, why should I waist any more time developing modules and fixes for the likes of you? I could save countless hours developing modules that fit within *my* sites if I cut out distribution factors. Do you have any idea of how much time would be saved if I could just write "nuke" into my database calls vs. "".$prefix."". Time yourselves for a few hundred lines and see what difference that makes. How about multi-lingual functions? Have you ever tried to migrate a module from using a single language to multi-lingual? Each of my modules has taken multi-lingual functionality into account. Database schemes? Install instructions? Tech support?
You know, I have done a lot for this group. PHPNuke has been downloaded over 140,000 times. Each downloaded uses stuff that *I* created. Do you want to see my contributions stop? I have some of the most progressive ideas out there and I am willing to develop and keep them all to myself. What good does it do me to help you out?
Perhaps you should have dug a little deeper and thought a little bit more about your actions. From one developer to another, I have to eat and support my family! You benefit from my interest in PHPNuke. What have you done to help me out? Have you created anything great that I can recognize? Please tell me. Perhaps we can come to a common ground. My guess is that you will not respond to this e-mail. People like you usually don't. You have my e-mail address. It's not hard to loose. trevor@trevor.net <-- pretty easy one to remember!
I am so disappointed in the both of you. Keep this stuff up and nobody will use PHPNuke. In doing that, people like me will stop developing for PHPNuke and people like you will stop benefiting from our hard work.
The only way I will ever consider releasing my work is if I hear back from both of you. You can be sure I will finish my projects as they are things that interest me. I will also announce them as being finished, yet when people come to download them, I will simply state the fact that the PHPNuke user community is un-grateful and un-deserving and post both of your responses. And therefore not able to download the stuff *I* create.
Thanks for setting the wheels in motion. I feel so good about developing for PHPNuke now!
Trevor Scott
TrevorS on PHPNuke.Org
1. A lot of changes can happen in 8 weeks of pure development. The code *is* heavily modified. PHPNuke can not support this knock-off engine. While other developers would benefit from my discovery process, applying all the changes directly would most likley cause MORE problems in a base distro.
2. Am I out of line here? I'm so sick of people like this. The people that complain the loudest about people using PHPNuke often run the crappiest sites.
3. Have we come to a final agreement with regards to FB's right to place the hideous copyright notices at the bottom of every page?
I tell you, I am so close to launching another site on PHPNuke (from PostNuke), but at this point I am getting ready to scrap all use and development for PHPNuke and resume my own Portal Engine with the direct intent of competing against PHPNuke. I already have the frame work for the engine as I use it on 99% of my other projects. It wouldn't be too far of a streatch to develop user system. 8-10 hours a day of developing in PHP has really sharpened my skills. It's no longer a question of "if I can" but "how I can" develop something.
If the general opinion is that these two were wrong in approaching my clients, and thus threatening to put me out of work, then I will stop working with PHPNuke. As any real developer knows, jobs are very hard to come by. But if I am wrong, then I will go my own way and create the Atomic Portal Engine.
I would not have wasted the energy and frustration it took to compose this. All you accomplished was giving them satisfaction, imo. You allowed it to become personal, not business. But, I can understand why you did it . The best recourse for trolls like that is to just ignore them. They go away. Just be professional with your clients, if they ask, and tell them the guys blow. Keep cool and don't throw the baby out with the bath water
Yeah, I could tell. hehehe You didn't have to waste more of your time writing that email but sometimes it's good to blow off steam. It was very interesting reading the changes you made. I don't agree with these self-appointed Gestapo. If I was in your shoes, I would either not release the code to the community or charge for it to send a clear signal that this behavior is not wanted. I don't develop sites for others, but if someone contacted one of my clients like those two did to yours, I would hunt them down and sue in court for interfering with a business relationship.
You said these types usually have crappy sites. I think most if not all of them do nothing to contribute to the community. Maybe in their minds this is a way for them to give back but in reality it's nothing more than vindictiveness. They don't understand the license, don't know what others may have done to the code like you did, and don't realize the legal ramifications they are placing themselves under.
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. The best recourse for trolls like that is to just ignore them. They go away. Just be professional with your clients, if they ask, and tell them the guys blow. Keep cool and don't throw the baby out with the bath water 
