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 Hi all.
After all the recent events that appear to have been caused by a news post (that people only read the first bit of) on NukeCops by me, I'd like to offer an official and public apology to FB
This whole situation has gotten out of hand, and I'd like to explain a few things. More follows.....
1. There was a misunderstanding by me of the GNU/GPL which does say that you can't charge for the software, but you can charge for the delivery medium which doesn't, it appears, disclude downloads, so FB is within his right to restrict Nuke 6.6 to the club members only.
2. NukeCops decision to not support Nuke 6.6 was a result of a decision made by the majority of staff at NukeCops as a result of a collection of things. Not just the GNU/GPL issue, and may be withdrawn in the near future.
3. PHP-Nuke is still the best CMS in existance. I've tried most of them, so I know. FB has shown real tallent by creating such a system, and even though competition is improving, it's still not up to PHP-Nuke's standards.
Again, I apologise to FB on behalf of myself and NukeCops, and I hope all can become well in the nuke community again.
AI
Admin Note: This same apology has been submitted to phpnuke.org
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Posted on Wednesday, May 28 @ 06:33:40 CEST by ArtificialIntel |
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Average Score: 3.35
Votes: 14
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by NovemberRain on Wednesday, May 28 @ 07:45:32 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | now what?
no freenuke? |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Mithoron on Wednesday, May 28 @ 08:25:56 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I like a group that can offer that it made mistakes.
That being said, with the removal of the only means of support on FB's site (removal of the forums) I believe FB is shooting himself in the foot and I fear for PHP-Nuke's future.
Such a complicated scripting system HAS to have support. Even if it was strictly user support and he never posted once in the site or delegated to other individuals, cancelling all of it is an extreme that I hope he realizes is not the correct move.
Kudos to you for admiting your mistakes though...it is that type of honesty that I appreciate on this site... |
Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, May 28 @ 09:07:35 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | FB has made an announcement that the reason why he removed the forums & the feedback forms from phpnuke.org is because they were using an excessive amount of bandwidth every month
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by baloo on Wednesday, May 28 @ 10:01:37 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | | er, that's only a small santized snippet of why he removed them. I beleive he also mentioned flaming, sabotage, attacks, people trying to destroy him etc |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Mithoron on Wednesday, May 28 @ 11:29:27 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Along with "sabotage" and a whole list of other reasons.
If it were bandwidth, a simple posting of a news item saying the site was in need of funding probably would have gotten him all the money for the site he needed.
We all know the real reason, let's not gloss over the truth...his past actions and compulsatory actions speak for themselves. He basically was pissed at what people were saying so shut the site down...plain and simple.
To totally shut down the forums which was the basic means of support for his product shows all lack of business etiquette and any sort of feelings he has for the general user. That he does not even refer to this site which now has become one of the primary sites for support shows his lack of concern for his customers... |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, May 28 @ 11:38:39 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | ok ok, enough damage has been done without adding more fuel to the flame as mikem has put it so accurately.
In the end of the day, it's FB's site so he can do what he likes with it.
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Birba on Wednesday, May 28 @ 10:01:06 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.icompiti.com | You may apology FB, but I think that FB too should apology because he deleted the forums with all questions and answers about Php-nuke. There were solutions for some nuke problems.
I think that's enough: it's not possible to manage a nuke-site with the continue incertitude about future developments. Life is uncertain, but nuke is exagerately uncertain. The way FB deals with problems it's hugely troubled. Near every month he says he doesn't know if he wants to continue developing nuke.
This time I would have payed for the new release, but 6.6 hasn't corrected even the most known bugs!
Perhaps fb is a php genius, but his work is also based on the work of other peoples and he never takes this in the right consideration; time passes and the best intelligences go away from nuke.
We all loose in this way.
I use nuke since two years, and till now i've been faithful, and didn't go with forks or other CMS, but if you start freenuke I'll be with you. If you need it, I could make the italian translation. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by sixonetonoffun (sixonetonoffun@spammenot.com) on Wednesday, May 28 @ 10:41:26 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | WTF I thought I replied to Ravens comment and now they are both MIA?
Anyway AI we all knew who was the bigger man from the start. Glad to know you've made an effort to assist the community in the healing process.
That said I for one am converting to postnuke-phoenix-0.7.2.3 in the mean time as a statement of goodbye PHPNuke. Not that I am thrilled with the overkill in the PN core but... its a small beginning. While waiting for further developements to begin.
Have a nice nuke day ;o) |
Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by jbsarma on Wednesday, May 28 @ 14:09:12 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.assamchronicle.com | | I will too convert. I already downloaded PostNuke but probably would not be able to move quickly because of time. But, yes, in principle, we should not be tolerating individual whims which are at display at present as far as PHPNuke is concerned. And it is a bit exageration also to say that PHPNuke is the best - there are pros and cons. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by snarfies3 on Wednesday, May 28 @ 18:09:10 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.temple-anime.org/erik/ | | I personally think Postnuke is a better overall system. The ONLY reason I use it on only one of the three CMS-based pages I run is because the modules I want to use just aren't available under Postnuke. Postnuke modules are FAR cleaner to install though... everything is usually 100% self-contained in one directory. If you use Postnuke, be sure to check out ContentXpress at http://pn.arising.net/, I only WISH there were a similar addon for PHPNuke... |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, May 28 @ 18:35:06 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | port it.
PHP-Nuke is easy as hell to program for. Why do you think it's so popular?
PHP is one of the easiest programming languages there is to learn. Porting is simple. There aren't that many fundermental changes between the 2 nuke CMSs.
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by mikem on Wednesday, May 28 @ 11:17:03 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Mighty big of you AI. Sometimes it only takes one person to start the healing process. I have pretty much kept out of the loop on this whole ordeal. I've chosen NOT to voice my opinion on ANY of the recent events, simpluy because I believe there is no need for one more opinion to fuel the fire.
I'm sure everything will work out for the best for everyone. If it doesn't, then oh well, it's not the end of the world as we know it. Besides, many of us have Family and friends. What's more important when it boils down to it? Some silly computer program or FAMILY?
No one likes "bad-blood" between one another. And if they do, then they should really re-think their priorities.
Everything's gonna be just fine :-)
mikem |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by foxyfemfem on Wednesday, May 28 @ 12:16:19 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Hello AI,
I admire a person that can admit when they're wrong and apologize for their mistakes. That show you're a bigger person than most.
After reading several of the feedback on phpnuke.org I truly feel many owe FB an apology but apparently they can not admit they were wrong.
I'm a very compassionate person, I put myself in FB's shoes and I can only imagine how he felt from all the flaming, bashing, etc. It hurt me to read it therefore, I can assume it hurt him as well. For every action there is a reaction. Some over-react but thats human nature.
I dont want to see phpnuke come to an end and I definitely dont want nukecops to stop supporting phpnuke because it is a good CMS.
I will continue to pray for the nuke community to reach an agreement where everyone would be happy. I admire this website and I truly appreciate all the wonderful support that is offered here.
I will end this by saying: Let the community come together and reason. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by jbsarma on Wednesday, May 28 @ 13:27:39 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.assamchronicle.com | | This is childish. No professionalism at all - neither from FB nor from anybody else involved. And we all the mere mortals, the users, are taken for granted. If you, the mighty programmers including FB, do something that involves thousands of others, then please hehave in a professional manner. Your individual emotions are not for public display. I can sympathise with many of you at a individual level, given that many of you are sincere and working hard for the community, but that is besides the point. Please donot take people for granted and donot behave the way you are at present i.e., jumping into conclusion without thinking and then apologising to the very person you are angry with just a moment before. Please think before you act as your action affects us, the users. |
Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, May 28 @ 13:30:29 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | would you mind explaining where the emotion was in all this? There was very little emotion in the original decision that started all this, and the apology was from one professional to another. Publicly so people know where we stand
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by jbsarma on Wednesday, May 28 @ 13:59:37 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.assamchronicle.com | | I expressed my opinion and you yours -- fair enough. People will make their own mind up. But, to me you have lost all credibility and I for one would not take your word at face value anymore. Why did you float the idea of FreeNuke only to back off leaving everybody else who supported the idea in a awkward situation now. Think before you act - not my advice but ageold wisdom. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, May 28 @ 14:40:32 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | we haven't backed off FreeNuke. Nobody has said we have. Nobody said FreeNuke was a go-ahead to start with, but we certainly haven't backed off the idea.
Like ZX has said, we're in discussions with FB to see what route he wants to take with a few issues, and chances are FreeNuke will exist after the talks have finished, but the form it takes might be a little altered depending on FB
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by jbsarma on Wednesday, May 28 @ 15:02:13 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.assamchronicle.com | | OK. Calm down. I have nothing against you. You are genuine but a bit more enthusiastic and that make you vulnerable to be misunderstood. FB may be a genius but you know deep down in your heart that the PHPNuke is not being run in a professional way. It is run in FB's whims with scant respect to the users as reflected in his latest action of deleting the forum. I donot mind charging money to access the club membership area - but at present it is not good value for money. I will pay if I think something without an alternative can be obtained - this is market driven. And also be little bit realsistic as well in your claim that PHPNuke is the best (that is your opinion and I ofcourse respect that) - this really depends as everything got pros and cons. I can do very easily with PostNuke as well - it is not any inferior and there are so many other CMS as well. And they are fast catching up even if I admit that PHPNuke is the best at this point in time. So, unless, we are very careful future is uncertain for PHPNuke with FB behaving the way he is at present. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, May 28 @ 15:34:44 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | these are all issues being addressed in the talks.
As for alternatives. PostNuke doesn't rate that good compared with Xoops and e107.
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Zhen-Xjell on Friday, May 30 @ 12:31:17 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://castlecops.com | | In the end it is impossible to please everyone. Nuke Cops will make an announcement next week, the one we feel is most appropriate for all parties involved. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Dunderklumpen on Wednesday, May 28 @ 19:54:40 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | | The only ones that never makes any misstakes are the ones doing nothing. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Atoum on Wednesday, May 28 @ 14:54:49 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I think it's always nice to be respectful towards others. It is also important to apologise when necessary. However, I don' really see what was so "offending" about your FreeNuke related news.
It was simply expressing clearly and without being insultant to anyone what many in the community think. If some comments posted after the new were insultant, it's not you who has to apologize but the one who posted it. Or is the simple mention of ending support insultant? Are you granted? Are we?
I don't really care about the end of the forums, there are plenty other sites like this one or mine for the french community that can handle the support just fine.
What concerns me is the new FB released a couple of months ago about the posible use of ZEND encoder for the next versions. The idea is simply SCARRY, and my view is that FB should seriously clarify his position on this matter if he doesn't want to see some new forking. If you don't do it, others will. I personnally started making researches to write a migration from PHP-Nuke to Postnuke tutorial. I hope PHP-Nuke never leaves open source and GNU, so I'll never have to publish it. But right now I freak, because just like you I LOVE this CMS, but wouldn't be able to cope with the idea of paying for it...it's just not my vision of the community.
To resume: it was nice of you to excuse yourself (even though I still don't get what for), now it's to FB to clarify his position on futur releases. And if he sticks to the last expressed one, I would really be happy if you went on with FreeNuke (else I'd be FORCED to pass to Postnuke and advise my members to do so as well, I'm for open source so have to stick to my personal choices), and would be delighted to do the french translation if needed. This is said with no will to offend anyone, and with respect to FB who created this CMS I love...so am worried about :( |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Hajduk on Wednesday, May 28 @ 16:41:30 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I was very concerned for some weeks when reading the comments on PHP Nuke and the GPL issues. Most people don't have a understanding about what they are talking, and just want things for free. For nothing the sun goes up. PHP Nuke is a good system, and there is no other system that offers the same.
People should understand that there are people working on PHP Nuke like FB and others. They spend a lot of time and hard work on it, and the succes of a Open Source script lies in the fact that there are some refenues for the creators of scripts like these. Forcing FB e.g. to take away the footer notice, the club issue etc. are destroying the Open Source idea and the possibility for people that create these scripts to innovate and support themselves will destroy the Open Source society. There is no other script like this one that receives that much wide and free support, most of the rethoric posted on the PHP Nuke site and the Nuke Cops site was destructive and not constructive. People I fear are lazy nowadays and just want to take take take, without giving something instead.
Lets face it, if PHP Nuke isn't supported like it is now it will die and no other CMS will take its position. There is already a ongoing discusion in the US/EU on government levell to pull the plug on Open Source means on the internet. This can be done, and just in case people will start replying this is not possible, I say it is! I know what I am talking about since I work for a Think Tank that makes analysis about issues like this. The free internet world is under attack and if people don't stick together it will die for sure. Pulling the plug on a Open Source idea is very easy trust me.
I like this message above and I hope that people will help people like FB to go on with this project and make it last. I already talked with FB about some idea's and I will post more of them soon on the website. As for the Club I can say this. I am a member. I live in Europe, Serbia. My income is lower then most of yours but still I see something that is good and worthwhile paying a crappy couple of dollars a month. I would spend more on condoms in one week ;-))so I dont see what the problem and the fuzz is. As for the copyright footer, it is valid and legal. I also believe a lot of people don't run Company sites, most of them are personal hobby sites, I never understood why people want to remove this footer, since it was this footer that introduced me to PHP Nuke. You can't take credit for it just because you use it.
Basicly my message is to FB and the guys from NukeCops. Glad you kissed and made up. Stick together! As for those who only complain and wish to have things for free. JEBI SE!!!( if you wish to get this translated email me he he he )
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, May 28 @ 17:12:59 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | the "Kiss and made up" bit is a looooong way off yet. I just made the first step.
Secondly. Any Government stupid enough to try to ban OpenSource will be voted out of government in a vote of no confidence in 10 mins flat. This would be for 2 reasons: 1. It promotes computer Crime. 2. It has an undisputable support for the way Microsoft rips people off every single day.
The future isn't set. and you're also wrong about there being no CMS that could ever meet PHP-Nuke's standards. PHP-Nuke has it's flaws which I won't go into right now, and there are alternatives - like e107 and FreeNuke (in planning) that could easily match up to it quite quickly with the right help from people like us.
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Hajduk on Wednesday, May 28 @ 17:33:48 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | On what you said on the Open Source you are wrong. Open Source is a threat to internet secutiry, encoded material is better on a quantitave side. As for Microsoft ripping of people, they do it and they are good at it.
As for the CMS's, if Nuke fails the others will as well. For the same reason. This is called strategic management, and the FreeNuke will become a fiasco in the long run as well, because you will enherit the problems and users of PHP Nuke.
The alternatives of PHP Nuke bring alternative flaws, basicly CMS all have one big flaw and that is their diversity. They are easy to hack, unless the source code is Zend encoded. But even Zend security can be easily breached as was demonstrated in the NATO campaign over Kosovo in 1998/1999. You are wrong when you say the government will fall, people don't care. People don't care if you blow up 1500 Iraqies in Bagdad and people will not care when they unplugg Open Source.
Only a couple of Hobby sites that will complain, but that cannot make a political fist. See Inymedia e.g, they are close at the abyss as well at the moment of being unplugged.
No, if people fail on PHP Nuke they will fail on the other projects as well. It has nothing to do with the details, but with the methodics and the processess behind all of it.
People are people..... |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Wednesday, May 28 @ 18:33:25 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I'm going to take this opportunity to remind you that OpenSource was government policy not so long ago.
If OpenSource was abolished, 99.99999999999999999% of web sites would immediately have to go. OpenSource includes ALL programming lanugages where source code is distributed. That includes C++, PHP, JSP, Java, C, HTML, JavaScript (being the fundermental 2 online @ the moment) and many others.
Yes, you may argue that C++, C, JSP and Java are all compiled languages and therefore aren't opensource, but you'd be mistaken.
What defines opensource is not what language they're written in, but whether source code is distributed and published or not.
The programming languages themselves aren't affected by any opensource policy from any government, but when a government tries to implement a "No OpenSource" policy, it has to be international or the laws can't be enforced - ever. Web Sites would have to be taken down and written in a compiled scripting language like PHP-Zend or JSP (which is a mission in itself), and there'd be no development of anything outside the main development team because nobody would be able to make things compatible for a long time. This would create a 99% objection in the US and the UK and generally all over the EU because there is a LOT of eCommerce and stuff these days. To ban opensource would cause Governments more problems than leaving it be would.
You don't think there'd be a vote of no confidence? I do. On average, less than 25% of people turn up to vote for elections. what if 60% of people turned up in the first election after they pass a policy as dumbass as that, and the difference of 35% are IT professionals that have been disrupted - majorly - by the policy. The government would be gone quicker than they can say "What are the poll results?"
Now, enough of this because it's way off topic and quite frankly - irrelevant.
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Atoum on Wednesday, May 28 @ 18:51:39 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I see the threat on open source as a serious matter we should surely follw a little closer as we all are users of open source programs. Agree on that.
Also the footer copyright notice debate is empty, writing the name of the developper is the least one can do to thank the guy that developped the CMS for us. If one's not happy with this way of thanking, he should consider others, as paying for the licence of another CMS.
But for other CMS, I'll just reply with 2 simple names: PostNuke and Nuked-Klan. Both foarked from PHP-Nuke, bothe are in good state and widely used today...not to mention other CMS that are 100% free and NOT based on PHP-Nuke (SPIP, etc...). All work perfectly.
Let's make one thing clear here: from my understanding, noone WANTS the phpnuke community to clash. On the other hand, noone WANTS to stop using php-nuke cause of money things. 100% free progs can live, what about Linux? What about PHP? Easyphp? phpmyadmin? PHPearl? Didn't the guys that developped them work hundreds of hours on it 2 (much more than FB talking about the PHP developpers)? Still, their programs and support are still 100% free for who wants it to be so, after years of good service.
If you are telling me "admit you have to pay something else you'll see GNU licence die", I'll say "let it die then", since if GNU products are not free, I don't see the use of the GNU licence anyway.
Yes, it all come to money. Cause the reason why we have such a big community is because there's no money involved in it. Money dirties everything, creates extra interests, procedures, rights and obligations, equals more tension...in basic words, money equals business.
You speak about your case, arguing condoms cost you more than you club affiliation. Let me speak about mine. Unemployed since 8 months now, found a job as a humanitarian but starting only in september or october. Since 4 months and untill then, I've been eating spaghettis everyday cause they're the cheapest you get, I live in the cheapest flat I found, I don't buy clothes, and end each last week of each month borrowing up to 60 euros from friends to be able to EAT untill the beginning of next month. Living in Serbia or in Senegal doesn't necessarely put you in a lower social position than someone living in France (me), thanks god things are not that simple.
And what do I do all day long to spend time untill I start my job? I run a community site bringing news, and french support, translating themes and blocks/modules to french all this for the use of the community, and not asking ANYTHING to anyone even though my financial situation ir far, far ,far and far again from comfortable.
Why do I do this? Because I don't believe in nice stories based on money. And I want my story with PHP-Nuke to better than nice, I want it to be lovely. If one day I have to pay for it (I mean more than my hosting), I won't be able to, so I'll have to find another hobby like joggling.
So again, I have nothing against FB, who's a person I respect enourmously, but I have ideals, and also realities I have to stick to.
If PHP-Nuke goes paying, I won't be leaving, it will be leaving me. And trust me, when I'll be alone and see a lovely Freenuke sitting at a bar, as if waiting for me, I'll go and buy it a drink. Without any bad thoughts or intention towards FB or anyone else. Just with good intentions for myself, and all the others in my case (if I exist they exist also). |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Dunderklumpen on Wednesday, May 28 @ 20:14:32 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Open Source is NOT a threat to internet security - in fact without it 80-90% of the net would simply be gone.
And any goverment will fail if they ever come up with the stupid ide to try to ban Open Source. In fact several goverments are now testing and evaluating Open Source and there are several projects inside the EU moving in that direction. Open Source is much cheaper and in the end we are talking about taxpayers money.
The Danish goverment estimated that Open Source licenses could save as much as 4 billion Danish Kroner. Estimations done by Swedish authorities point in the same direction. Open Source saves taxmoney wich can be better spent.
In Germany Microsoft just recently lost to Suse Linux when it comes to running the 14 000 computers in the city of Munich.
So no - there will not just be hobbyist complaning if anyone comes up with the idea to try to stop or ban Open Source.
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Re: EU, FB, and the Playdogs (Score: 1)
by Imago on Thursday, May 29 @ 05:01:02 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.euronuke.org | Yes, you are right. The battle now is over Paid Source rather than over Open Source. In five years, I am confident, all government computers and public servers in EU will run on Open Source products. This is as inevitable as the eventual transmutation of communism in China.
As for FB, I don't think AI owes him an apology, which - as I see - has been greatly appreciated by FB, though the latent warning behind it will never be taken into account. It is simply not in the nature of GNU/GPL to release a product, claim money for the privilege to get it one or two months before the general public does (FOUR months in the case with 6.5), and to expect others, nukecops included, to provide universal support and fixes to security holes, and to aesthetically fine-tune or outline the system - just imagine how many theme architects are working out there.
I cannot judge whether the players comply with the GPL (I have read it 5 times and in spite of my being a double doctor in most obtruse transcendental philosophies - that of constitutive German phenomenology of Husserl and Navya-Nyaya logic of India, - I didn't understand it), but I do clearly see that in the case of php-Nuke the play is not fair.
Either FB has to forfeit his financial claims, or to remove all 3d party elements - down to the least bit of source code in his CMS. The other way is to establish a corporation, issue shares and offer free options to contributors.
As far as either alternative seems to be ridicule, sooner or later a FreeNuke or OSN (Open Source Nuke) will be born that will implement the spirit of the fairplay.
Now FB has taken the role of a tyrant capricioso, while the Nuke developers - that of happy and thankful playdogs. |
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Re: EU, FB, and the Playdogs (Score: 1)
by Dunderklumpen on Thursday, May 29 @ 06:04:03 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Well, I would´nt go as far as saying that all public servers and goverment computers will run on Open Source in five years. However there is a strong movement towards just as good solutions - just a lot cheaper. The School Department in Sweden switched from Microsoft Office to Suns Star Office and saved 650 million Skr - in one year. Not Open Source but away from Microsoft.
When it comes to Php-Nuke let me start by saying that FB has done a great job but he now has to let people helt and he has to get things moving by the help of teams and get a proper project organised. One team that takes care of bugtesting, security and patching, one team that takes care of actually documenting the system - "how to install" and "how to use" it and finally one team that actually develops the CMS-part of the system.
There are a lot of stuff stored in the database that is not being used and we have seen little development of the core of the system.
. UserGroups
. Link associated articles to one another with a droplist
. Preview in Content Manager and Sections
. Picture upload (there are modules, sure)
. HTML-filter or BBCode in news etc. etc to get rid of security problems, or solve many of them
. Better and more stable ways of upgrading a system
. A better patch system for bugs and security problems
. Rip out parts and create modules of them - rating is one of those functions
. Associated links - possibility to edit them in admin
. A better, tighter security system
There are a lot more than I can think of and it´s alredy being done. We (a small team) are alredy working on our own distribution (in Swedish) with user documentation, everything translated and with a lot of tweaks and changes from the original, wich by the way is 6.0 since we felt that PhpBB was not that great idea many others seemed to think.
We will off course not change anything that will lead up to that this distribution will not be compatible with modules and blocks created by others but we will add several functions that we fell should be there
If FreeNuke or NukeFree will take off we are willing to help out and contribute any wich way we can but untill then we have decided do create our own version/distribution.
FB really has to understand that users need support and at this point PHP-Nuke is used by so many that it is high time to let others in on the project and let others help.
Finally, instead of publishing new versions at a high rate - how about spending some time getting everything to work and clean out all the bugs?
How about alpha-, betatesters and goals set up with Milestones?
How about a bugreporting system?
Create a project - get people involved and get each team to be responsible for different parts - take a look at Mozilla and use parts of how that projects is organised and then get this show on the road again. |
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Re: EU, FB, and the Playdogs (Score: 1)
by Imago on Thursday, May 29 @ 06:46:15 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.euronuke.org | In fact, this is the core problem. Php-Nuke ceased to be a piece of code and turned into an organization. It can subsist untill there are in action the natural laws of self-organization, but the point has been reached when the self-regulation cannot cope with the evolution tasks.
FB might be a genius coder but he obviously is not an organizer, at least not the expected leader of an outgrown community. The Nuke community needs a lawyer and a macroeconomist to set up its developmental constitution. If FB is not going to take the lead in this direction somebody else will take it. |
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Re: EU, FB, and the Playdogs (Score: 1)
by Dunderklumpen on Thursday, May 29 @ 15:54:51 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Well said. Could´nt agree more. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by jbsarma on Wednesday, May 28 @ 18:51:29 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.assamchronicle.com | | Very strange. Why EU government would ban OS. If anything they may not promote it but how come they can ban it. This is a free society and banning OS would against the very fundamental rights of citizens that EU boasts of. This is very odd to suggest that OS would be banned - many government in developing countriesn are actively using OS. This is a movement nobody can ban unless ofcourse it dies a natural death due to greeed of people. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Dunderklumpen on Wednesday, May 28 @ 20:04:35 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | 1. There are no actuall suggestions or laws that would ban or make any Open Source software illegal - not in the EU at least. I haven´t even heard this even being discussed. Not seriously anyways. Sure - my guess is that lobbyist from the larger software companies are pushing for such a law but it will never happen since 80-90% av all email (just to take one exampel) is being distributed on open Source. Most homepages are also being hosted on Open Source solutions.
2. If PhpNuke would die or FB taking it in another direction others would develope it further. There are already several distributions out there. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by MikeMiles on Thursday, May 29 @ 20:23:35 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Hajduck, your posts are filled with inaccuracies.
There are a ton of other OS CMS' which offer the exact same core features. Some had these well before PhpNuke added it to theirs and some still have neat features not in this project yet. Nuke has a lot of third-party modules and blocks but every one of these can be easily ported to another CMS. If PhpNuke dies, the others will adequately fill the void and live on. The world does not revolve around this project. Some Nuke websites may, but the rest of the world does not. Each of the other CMS' has their own developers and do not rely at all on FB or this project.
The developers are entitled to make money off their efforts, but it is just plain dumb to charge for security and bug fixes. This alone will drive many away from the project. Microsoft doesn't even charge for these. If the programmers want to make money, then offer additional features, customizations, help with installations, tech support, etc but don't do it for fixing something you didn't code/test well in the first place.
It has been shown over and over and over again that security through obscurity does not work. It makes no difference if the code is encrypted. If a program has holes, hackers/crackers will find and exploit them. Open source has its flaws but so does every single piece of proprietary software out there. Microsoft is among the worst. They alone blow up your whole argument that propriety and encrypted software is more secure.
For many, many years, there has been a push to try and kill open source because businesses view it as a threat. Microsoft tried hard to get the US government to only use proprietary software. The US government told them a big NO. They are tired of paying high licensing fees to Microsoft, Oracle, etc for something they can find practically as good for free. Our government is moving more and more of its non-critical systems to open source to help save money. As was already pointed out here, the US and EU don't have the power to kill open source. This would have to be a world-wide initiative to even succeed. Go one step further in the argument, look at the basic premise behind open source. It is the DEVELOPER who decides he wants to give away HIS OWN WORK for others to use, modify, and redistribute. No government in the free world is going to tell one of its citizens he can't create something with his own hands and brain and give it freely away to someone else. This type of dictatorship may be possible in a repressive communist society but not in free democratic countries.
Copyright notice on footers. Read the GPL. It is NOT required period. I don't know why some have such problems understanding this part of the license. It is very clear it is only required in the source code itself. If PhpNuke was an interactive software which btw it is not, then a copyright notice is also required at the start of the program not on every webpage. This may be a request from FB, but the GPL itself does not require this. Please stop adding words to the license.
I've yet to see another open source project which has users brutally beating up other users for removing a notice. The GNU specifically tells the public when you see an infringement report it to the copyright holder as he is the only one who can enforce it. Has FB ever sued anyone over this? NO!! Ask yourselves why not. He could literally be a multi-millionaire if he had a case. He has not done so because he has no legal right to enforce this on someone else.
The only one who is really killing PhpNuke is FB. He was the one who took the code back and wanted to be the sole programmer of the core. He didn't have to do this. Now, he wants people to feel sorry for him? No way. There are many people who have been willing to help out but he keeps them at arms length. He is using the "oh poor me" syndrome which is a wonderful manipulation technique. Many people fall for it over and over again and th
Read the rest of this comment... |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Master-V on Wednesday, May 28 @ 23:07:24 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://yakster.net | I do not think you needed to apologize. I think it is rediculous to apologize to someone that would delete the forums at PHP-Nuke and charge others for bug/security fixes. Admitting your wrong is one thing, but groveling and saying you might start supporting 6.6 etc. and then going on to say PHP-Nuke is the best CMS, seems strange to me. If I had lost respect, for FB, I have now lost respect for this site. Furthermore, as I posted earlier I was considering some options to help/reward (and this included $ donations, and I see you just posted news about needing them) towards the development of FreeNuke etc. but that is probably not going to happen now. Instead, I am considering starting my own nuke, free to all, and free from sucking up to FB.
Master-V |
Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by sixonetonoffun (sixonetonoffun@spammenot.com) on Wednesday, May 28 @ 23:44:10 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I think in the interest of leaving the door open to "Friendly" possabilities. AI has simply taken the next step. Hang around for the dance. But let us leave the flame wars to less intelligent folks and the "bored". Who have nothing better to do with their time. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Atoum on Wednesday, May 28 @ 23:58:59 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Maybe you should chill a little :p As I mentionned before I don't understand the apology thing either, but again it can be a first step forward to try to motivate FB to do so 2. I think immediatly saying "you lost respect" for this site and "plan to start your nuke" sounds a little extremist 2. I didn't read anywhere that Freenuke was gone, they just mentionned they MIGHT start supporting 6.6
Reading this my feeling is that a lot of things are being talked about in private between several big sites of the community. Let them come to a conlusion before judging, and it would surely be better for the debate and everyone to avoid using offensive words such as "sucking up to FB" etc... it's not necessary to use those to express your view.
I'm quite confident in the choice Nuke Cops is going to make. If it decides to drop the FreeNuke thing, it surely means that PHP-Nuke will come back to it's original free distribution. If FB persists in his ZEND + club thing, I'm sure Nuke Cops will go on with Free Nuke. At least this is how I interpretated the last news on the subject posted here. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Master-V on Thursday, May 29 @ 00:03:24 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://yakster.net | | Ok, I've chilled :) I like to get mad too easy, and as others I can apologize :) However, I still don't agree with what seems to be happening right now and I stand behind my objection on the apology to FB. I am totally against charging for the bug fixes and security fixes. I would be completely for him charging for extra modules, blocks etc. but I really am against charging for the bug fixes and security fixes. It's just not smart. Make the club a place for better modules and blocks but keep releasing the security/bug fixes! |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Atoum on Thursday, May 29 @ 09:10:11 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Actually I'm getting tired of all the ongoing questions related to PHP-Nuke, the regular completely unexpected changes etc also.
I truly want Nuke Cops to go ahead with FreeNuke, this great CMS has to be properly exploited. But again it's their choice to decide in what way and to what extend they will contribute to this evolution :) What are the latest news on this on NukeCops side by the way? Can we have details on where the FreeNuke project now stands or is it still not clear? |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Q on Thursday, May 29 @ 18:21:24 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://3GuysHosting.com | I think FB is taking a disturbing path. First he stops releasing bug and security fixes to the public and then he gets rid of the forums and comments. He has basically silenced any criticism or feedback mechinism we had in the future developement. He calls is a community but a comunity comunicats, shares, and helps each other out, he has sent us scattering like bunch of bugs without a home...
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by MikeMiles on Thursday, May 29 @ 20:51:24 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Well, imagine someone who is brand new and he doesn't see anywhere to ask a question. It won't take long for him to turn right around and leave.
With the exception of a couple UK sites, the rest in the community section is focused on non-English speaking countries. If I was brand new, I would get the strong impression the project is either not used or hardly used by anyone in the US or Canada. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Friday, May 30 @ 18:54:08 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | there are 6 support sites (English language) for PHP-Nuke, but FB's had fallings out with the lot of us pretty much other than maybe NukeSupport.com so we're not on his "Community Links" list any more.
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Dunderklumpen on Saturday, May 31 @ 05:59:10 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | | There are several supportsites, in English, but FB has decided to delete most of the links wich means that the official site, without any forums and practically no support, has taken away the sites with forums and support. Just leaves the users hanging there. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Raven on Thursday, May 29 @ 22:44:44 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://ravenphpscripts.com | | I do not believe that AI owed an apolgy to FB other than for the misunderstanding of the GPL. However, that was his call and I respect him for it. However, FB owes the entire Nuke Community an apology. Don't hold your breath. |
Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Friday, May 30 @ 18:52:15 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Raven,
my apology wasn't because I offended him, hell he deserves it in a way. My apology was because I made a mistake and mistakes need to be apologised for.
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by KingRichard on Friday, May 30 @ 09:40:15 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.nukeaddon.com | AI,
I have one word for u... History repeat it self so many times. FB again made some wrong movement and try to do everything his way. AI, you have a big heart so dont blame yourself. FB need to grow up! else he kill PHP NUKE itseft.
Other CMS is now in the horizon u all could always choose between them without even bothering PHP Nuke. PostNuke, EnVolution, Xoops, and the latest one which have a very bright future XARAYA.
regards,
KR |
Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by ArtificialIntel on Friday, May 30 @ 18:51:14 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Xaraya has THE WORST admin panel I've ever seen. I'm not touching it wiht a 90ft barge pole.
AI |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by Wizard9 on Friday, June 06 @ 01:53:51 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Strange... He apologises and then leaves Nukecops?
It makes me remember of my old IRC times... Everytime an IRCop had a problem with the "owners of the network" he was forced to do the same. Beg forgiveness and pretend the "owners" where perfect.
YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME, AI. |
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Re: An Apology to FB (Score: 1)
by FreeBeerIsCool on Saturday, June 07 @ 12:48:32 CEST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Download PHP-Nuke 6.7 here as is allowed under the GPL:
http://www.bytemonsoon.com/details.php?id=226&hit=1
Requires BitTorrent to download. |
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